2 Wealth Show S3 Ep2 - Interview with Jack Forbes
On episode 2, Justin and Elizabeth interview Jack Forbes, co-founder of Kopa.
Key Takeaways:
Resources and links discussed
Sponsored By: Integrated Health Solutions
We are passionate about your health and wellness and we know you want to enjoy a vibrant, pain-free, active lifestyle, but when you are in pain this seems almost impossible.
In order to be pain-free, move fluidly, and enjoy an optimal level of functionality, you need a personalized yet integrated, research based and clinically proven approach and that’s what we do.
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About the Hosts
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Super E – Real Estate Investor specializing in short-term rentals and the management of them. She connects investors with short-term tenants and manages everything in-between.
Connect with the Hosts:
2 Wealth Show S3 Ep2 - Interview with Jack Forbes
On episode 2, Justin and Elizabeth interview Jack Forbes, co-founder of Kopa.
Key Takeaways:
Resources and links discussed
Sponsored By: Integrated Health Solutions
We are passionate about your health and wellness and we know you want to enjoy a vibrant, pain-free, active lifestyle, but when you are in pain this seems almost impossible.
In order to be pain-free, move fluidly, and enjoy an optimal level of functionality, you need a personalized yet integrated, research based and clinically proven approach and that’s what we do.
To learn more visit us at
ihsindy.com
cryotherapyindy.com
About the Hosts
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Super E – Real Estate Investor specializing in short-term rentals and the management of them. She connects investors with short-term tenants and manages everything in-between.
Connect with the Hosts:
[inaudible] Welcome to the, 2 wealth show a show that shares how you can create real wealth for you and your family. I'm one of your hosts, Justin Bogard. And my co-host is Elizabeth Sickles, AKA super E. I am a real estate note investor specializing in performing residential real estate debt. I find the deals acquire them for my own portfolio, as well as educate investors while walking them through the process of owning a real estate note. My co-host super E, a real estate investor specializing in short-term rentals and the management of them. She connects investors with short-term tenants and manages everything in between. Our show was sponsored by bright path notes and Elizabeth Maora. You can find out more information by visiting our websites at brightpathnotes.com and elizabethmaora.com. Hey, how's it going?
Elizabeth Maora:Justin Bogard. Happy 2021.
Justin Bogard:Happy 2021 to you too. And welcome to episode two, everybody of the season three, so super E. Um, we've got a lineup today of another guest. Well, our first guest of 2021 season three, right? That's great. I'll let you go ahead and do some introductions to our friend here and I'll bring him up in the background,
Elizabeth Maora:Right? So we have the pleasure of having Jack Forbes. He is the co-founder of Kopa. Um, we've been on Kopa since November now. Um, he's also a very fun fact about Jack is he is a Forbes 30 under 30. Um, so we're very honored to have you today Jack so welcome to our show. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, Jack. Thanks for being on our show, man. I don't think we've ever had somebody of this stature on our show, right? That's all right.
Jack Forbes:My name,
Justin Bogard:The cream of the crop for season three, right? Elizabeth
Jack Forbes:That's right. So, Jack, do you want to tell us, tell our audience a little bit about your company and why you started it? Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, so Kopa loved that you got the link up there. Um, it started as actually passion project, you know, a problem. We faced ourselves, uh, moving around and uh, renting for the month to month periods. And we just found there wasn't really a solution, uh, for that what we called medium term housing. You know, we found Airbnb had the short term one to 30 days stuff down pretty well. Uh, there's some solutions for the 12 month, uh, markets, but yeah, we were struggling to find that furnished, you know, three to six month housing in our case. And that was the inspiration. And then, uh, after five years of working on that, uh, we asked our folks, Hey, you know, we love building technology. What else should we build? What, what can you use? And they all were saying they wanted to take direct bookings to a website of their own. And we said, Hey, well, we've spent five years building this, you know, medium term housing marketplace. So a white labeling it. So you can use it as your own website is actually pretty easy. So we went ahead and did that and, um, have been seeing some exciting, uh, new customers from that.
Justin Bogard:Fantastic.
Elizabeth Maora:Excellent. And sorry, Jack, do you want to tell the audience where you're from or where you started up?
Jack Forbes:I mean, so I'm Canadian. Uh, I started this, uh, in Waterloo, Ontario near Toronto. Um, but have also spent a lot of time in the Seattle area. And I'm now at San Francisco. So I'm coming to you from a sunny windy San Francisco day.
Justin Bogard:I heard a lot of people are leaving San Francisco right now. Do you look out the window and you see fewer people?
Jack Forbes:So I literally just see them walking by with their suitcases. I'm like, Oh, where are you headed? Oh, it's true. It's true. It's I think rent is dropping in San Francisco more than any of the city in the U S people are flocking out Austin, Miami, Seattle. I've heard a little bit.
Justin Bogard:Wow. You're going to be the only one there pretty soon. Jack I'm leaving too
Elizabeth Maora:Well. That's very interesting. Um, but one of, so one of the things, when we came across, um, Jack's company, it makes it nice for hosts because unless, so we did have a software unless you have a software and all of the softwares are very expensive. Um, this is a fantastic alternative that people can just book directly on your site. So they take the credit card. It's so nice. Um, so he has a huge advantage and he's much less expensive than the service fees on VRBO and Airbnb. So I think it's a really genius, you know, um, not idea because you're doing it, but a genius business.
Jack Forbes:Um, yeah, I think we heard from a lot of hosts that especially with, uh, Airbnb and others increasing their service fees quite a bit, um, you know, that that 15% they've increased the two for hosts, uh, is pretty unaffordable for a lot of hosts. And, uh, um, you know, especially for the longer stays anything over a month, that's a lot of money that they're paying to the platforms. So, um, there's kind of been a wave of movement of direct bookings. And, um, we heard from our hosts that, you know, they weren't really finding a direct product that was professional that really hit us entered. They wanted to hit. Um, and we actually found the same as hosts ourselves. Um, so that's why we decided to create a direct booking pro.com, um, which is that new product.
Justin Bogard:Okay. So is this, is this for the smaller, um, business model of hosts? Like, like one, one to five units or what can, can you pinpoint exactly who would fall in this category?
Jack Forbes:Yeah, it's definitely geared more toward the smaller hosts. Um, but we actually do already have a property managers with up to 400 properties using it. Um, so we're kind of surprised we've seen bigger property management companies using it as well, even though we initially built in for the smaller hosts. So it definitely supports whoever, but, uh, yeah, that was our intention at least.
Elizabeth Maora:Have you seen a difference in like, where are your biggest markets? Where, where are your biggest booking markets? So like pre COVID and now during COVID
Jack Forbes:Oh, that's a good question. We pre COVID, we were very geographically constrained, you know, trying to make sure we were finding product market fit in specific cities. So we were just focused on the San Francisco Bay area, Seattle and New York, but once COVID hit, we actually saw a host flocking to these medium term stays. So we suddenly found ourselves in about 75 us cities. Um, so that really kind of exploded with COVID and now, yeah, the actual bookings, we're definitely seeing, uh, some of the ones I've mentioned where folks move into like Austin, Miami, um, Nashville, uh, kind of getting out of some of the big cities, like getting out of San Francisco in New York, um, and going to yeah. Some of those up and coming towns and cities, Indianapolis. Ooh, it's good question. I can't say we've seen too many, uh, uh, inquiries there yet, but you know, once the supply is there, I think the demand will come okay. One step at a time. Right, right, right.
Elizabeth Maora:So can you give us, um, some of the, some pro tips that people don't necessarily know on getting the bookings, what you've learned over this time?
Jack Forbes:Oh yeah. Yeah. Five years is a long time to have been building this. Um, so yeah, we've learned a lot in that time. One really pro tip I like to share is, uh, we've seen that, um, listings on Kopa or through direct booking pro, um, with video or 3d tours, uh, are at least three times more likely to get booked. Uh, and so, you know, when you add your listing to direct booking pro.com, um, uh, you can add a YouTube link and that can be an unlisted video so that no one else can see it. It only holds in three, two, but that's free to do right. It can take a host, uh, three minutes to record the video, you know, a few more minutes to upload it. And then a few more minutes just to add it to the listing and for really like less than a half hour of work, uh, we've seen, you know, over three times better conversion on listings with video tours. And if you want to go above and beyond, you could even do a 3d tour. Um, there are some free options. I know there's like a creator, but that one is actually sunsetting in July. I think, um, the more expensive one, I think people might know about it as like Matterport. Um, in that case maybe if, you know, someone who already is renting a Matterport, maybe just ask them if you can borrow it at the same time or something. Um, but the, the video tour alone is at least, uh, a huge step up. So that's a really good pro tip that I like to share because I also haven't really read that online too much and Airbnbs and whatnot don't support video or 3d tours either. Um, so yeah, so that's, that's a good one. Aside from that, a lot of the other, uh, kind of pro tips you could find if you do enough research, but, um, you know, getting reviews is an obvious one, um, including a headshot of, uh, a teammate or yourself is really important. Um, because guests and renters, you know, really want to feel like, uh, they can see themselves living there and feel like they're talking to a person, um, as opposed to maybe doing like a company logo, for example. Um, so, you know, being able to see who they're talking to, we've seen builds trust, and then they're more likely to book. Um, and yeah, those are some of the, I guess the biggest ones that would, I would say are the best pro tips
Justin Bogard:That makes total sense. I'm glad you brought up the video part because you're exactly right. As you're explaining that, I'm thinking to myself, I had the last time that I booked something like that. It's great to see the ins and outs of it. Cause we have four kids in our family. So if we're trying to get a, you know, a short term on the beach or something like we want to see, do they have enough space? What are the beds like? Are they bunk beds? Are they full sized beds with the group kids together? You know, that's, that's a really good point. And that would be a very good selling point for me, a consumer looking at that. So kudos for you guys for implementing that. That's a good idea.
Jack Forbes:Thank you. I appreciate, I mean, I think the other thing with it, I should have mentioned too, is with photos too, you can edit them, right. And you could even take maybe a Panorama or kind of a wide angle, so it can make the place look bigger. Um, and then guests maybe can come and they're like, guys, this isn't as big as I thought, whereas video, uh, unless you're really good at video editing, it's hard to, you know, exaggerate anything. So again, I think that build the trust though, folks know, okay. I know exactly what I'm getting.
Justin Bogard:Absolutely awesome.
Elizabeth Maora:And then also just for any of our listeners, cause I also do traditional rentals and Zillow now has an app that You can do the 3d, um, you know, Matterport type of, um, virtual tours. So actually I'm going to use their app this afternoon at some of the properties we have coming up.
Jack Forbes:It was a great shout out. That's one of the 3d tours supported. Um, it should be pretty much every kind of 3d tour supported on your direct booking or Kopa listing. Um, and yeah, you just plot in that 3d link and then it automatically renders it when a guest comes to your listing. Um, and so yeah, there's a 3d tour app worked perfectly
Elizabeth Maora:Awesome. All right. That's cool. Very good to know.
Justin Bogard:Absolutely. So I'm not the, in the short term game like Elizabeth and you are Jack, so this is all kind of new to me. So when we bring guests on like yourselves, it's really informative for me to learn. And so soaking absorb exactly how this works and everything. And I had no idea that you mentioned the competition doesn't even have the ability to do videos and stuff. And that, that definitely stands you out. Yeah.
Jack Forbes:Honestly, a little confused as to why yeah. The others don't support it. Um, I've even heard at some point, some of them did and then they dropped support. So, um, yeah, it really does have a huge impact on conversion and uh, yeah, it's, uh, again, like so easy, you know, Elizabeth, once you do it, you can even share how easy it was.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. So for people to get ahold of you, um, through your website, we know that we'll be watching a video. You can see this as www.kopa.co and there's a for hosts to come and to use your services. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. And then I think Elizabeth has her own link, doesn't she?
Elizabeth Maora:I do, yes. And people can come under that one also to sign up as a host,
Jack Forbes:Use the link you can see here, directbookingpro.com/elizabethmaora. You can also actually use a directbookingpro.com/super E. I just added some more as I saw what you go by as well. So either one you can use and, uh, yeah. Get a fun little discount when you sign up with that one too.
Justin Bogard:Her, her actual birth name was super E. I believe it.
Elizabeth Maora:Hey Jack, I'm also curious, have you seen an increase in the length of bookings since COVID and can you talk about that
Jack Forbes:Since we started as a medium term housing marketplace, like focused on those, you know, one to 12 month stays, um, we actually saw a decrease because, uh, we saw more of those short-term folks coming to us, whereas the short-term marketplaces did see an increase. So the overall average length of stay has increased, you know, in the world. But in of our marketplace, we actually were serving, um, uh, you know, founders, new grads, interns, and other working professionals that would actually stay four to eight months previously. And then we actually saw that come down a bit to more like three months on average. Um, so yeah, we started decreased, but overall it has been an increase. Okay. Okay.
Justin Bogard:I kind of, kind of a side question. I don't know if you have data like this and this is kind of a, uh, you know, shot shot, shot to you to see how you can answer this. But I was curious as to when you have a host that actually live in the dwelling versus hosts that don't live there. Do you have data on that? I'm just curious as to what that is.
Jack Forbes:Yeah. That's a great question. We initially were built around that concept, you know, cause we have built Kopa and directbookingpro um, especially for those hosts that maybe just have one property manager and yeah, maybe they live there. Um, you know, initially it was a good chunk of the supply on Kopa. Um, but that has become a smaller percentage is, you know, more and more property managers and property management companies have a listed. Um, but you know, since we were built around that from the start we actually, uh, when you make your listing, we ask, you know, what is your relationship with the property or your property manager? Do you live there so that we can show that transparent information to the guests or renters, uh, when they inquire and request to rent? Uh, we found that the really important one, especially if the host lives there, because, you know, uh, rent to your, let's say doesn't want to be surprised to find out like, Oh actually, okay, my landlord lives here. Um, it can be a great thing. And like, some people prefer to book that space, but in cases where they thought they'd have the place to themselves, they maybe aren't as happy. So we try and, you know, make it as transparent as possible.
Justin Bogard:Do you see, uh, um, bookings more with people that, um, the host doesn't live there with, with COVID and stuff going on or has it been just the same as it was
Jack Forbes:Definitely, uh, smaller, um, average bedrooms, uh, kind of bookings with COVID for sure. So we saw, we were seeing, you know, two bedroom bookings, even up to three, uh, on average that's definitely come down closer to just one, um, as the average now, so folks definitely are booking places for themselves and even hosts who did rent out, let's say a three to five bedroom. Um, we've seen a lot of them, uh, just rent out like half of the rooms to make people feel more comfortable. So yeah, definitely. Uh, you know, those, those, uh, one bedrooms are getting performed, but I think we're actually on the trend back toward, uh, more bedrooms again.
Justin Bogard:Okay. So you're seeing some normalcy coming back with what it was before February last year.
Jack Forbes:Exactly. I think people are a little more comfortable there's some hysteria,
Speaker 2:Well, rightfully so. It was the unknown, right. It was really know what the effects are and what's going on. And I do think, I agree. We definitely have a lot more knowledge and education on what this does and what we need to do to protect ourselves. So cool.
Elizabeth Maora:And so can you share with us how many listings you do have Jack or
Jack Forbes:Yeah, yeah. There's now over 20,000 units on Kopa in the U S congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, it's exciting. That's awesome. Wow. Congratulations. Yeah.
Elizabeth Maora:And do you have any plans on going international?
Jack Forbes:Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, especially in the Homeland of Canada, you know, I it's pains me. We still don't technically support Canada. Um, but we did at one point, but, uh, since, uh, we process all the payments through Kopa or direct Inpro and, you know, make it as easy as possible for the guests to rent or to pay via credit card or ACH. Um, we have to support all the different payment types of, you know, a renter wants to pay with a bank. We gotta make sure we support at least, you know, 95% of the banks or else that's not a great experience. And in Canada, when we did launch there, we only supported about 80% and that just wasn't a good enough experience that we were comfortable with. So we pulled out a Canada. Yeah. We plan on beating Canada soon. And then, uh, Europe, um, probably end of this year, I would say,
Elizabeth Maora:Okay, for Canada or Canada and Europe,
Jack Forbes:Canada, I would say, could happen in a few months. Europe will be a few months after. Yeah. Oh wow. That's great.
Justin Bogard:Excellent. Congratulations. Yeah, you guys are booming.
Jack Forbes:Can't complain.
Elizabeth Maora:Can you talk to our listeners too about kind of your, um, your marketing strategy and how your, how you've been able? I mean, 20,000 listings is incredible. So how you've been able to do
Jack Forbes:Yeah. You know, it really COVID was a lot of that. So we really were just in three geographies primarily before COVID and, um, then, uh, it was actually primarily a program we introduced called Kopa for good at drove a lot of those new hosts. So right around March, um, end of March, we introduced a program called Kopa for good, which, um, enabled hosts to, uh, check off these requirements and say, okay, it's, uh, it meets, you know, cleaning standards, um, uh, it's, you know, affordable and like at least lightly discounted from the typical market rates and a few other check boxes. And if they met those requirements, we opted them into this program called Kopa for good, uh, so that, you know, travel nurses, um, you know, frontline workers, uh, those in desperate need of, uh, housing could, you know, uh, look for these clean, affordable places to live. Um, and we actually were fortunate to see press come from that as well. Um, you know, like Yahoo picked it up rent responsibly landlord groups and few others. And I think that was actually primarily what drove a lot of that new supply, um, that Kopa for good program, um, including, um, some companies that, uh, you know, opted in as well. So some of the total living companies and, um, you know, the why hotels are huge Saunders and them, um, joining that program. So we had kind of our landing page with some of their logos on there too. So I think, I think that was, uh, the biggest one that drove the supply.
Justin Bogard:Awesome. Elizabeth, do you have, do you have any other questions that we want to fire before we end today's episode?
Elizabeth Maora:What is, so this is not relate exactly to Kopa, but, um, can you tell us your favorite book or a book that you would like to recommend our guests to, to read or listen to?
Jack Forbes:That is a great question. Okay. I'm, uh, you know, fantasy fiction kind of person. Um, you know, I, I definitely mix it up between, uh, fiction and, uh, you know, just educational content, like the bill Gates kind of books. Um, so I really liked the ones that, you know, just tell a story that brings me to a kind of different world. And one of the somewhat more recent ones is ready player one that I love, um, which, yeah, it's based in the future in kind of like this VR world. Uh, and I don't know, I just got lost in it. Uh, Steven Spielberg picked it up and did the movie for it about a year ago. Um, personally I liked the book a lot more, but, uh, yeah, that, that book I, I love.
Elizabeth Maora:Okay, so ready player one? Yeah. Okay.
Justin Bogard:I've seen the movie, I've seen the movie, the book you'll like more trust me. Okay. It usually works out that way. The book is a lot better than the movie, so. Awesome. Well, Jack, thank you so much for being on our episode. Number two of season three and, um, congratulations on all your success. I'm just, I'm blown away that we're able to get you, um, as an interview with all your accolades to follow. Thank you.
Jack Forbes:Appreciate it. And yeah. Thank you both for having me and congrats on your success as well. It's exciting. I've been following now for a few months and love what you're doing.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, thanks. We're, we're extending our reach because of people like you. So we definitely appreciate the opportunity to interview somebody like you. So Jack, and until next time, man, we'll, we'll, we'll catch up with you.
Jack Forbes:Sounds good and happy new year, happy new year. Thank you.
Justin Bogard:All right. Super E. That was a great interview for episode two. And I look forward to the other interviews that we have coming up here this season, and I hope they can be as, as amazing as, uh, as Jack and his company are. So, um, you have any closing thoughts for today? Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Maora:I would say we actually have sunshine today in, um, in Indianapolis. So make sure to, um, you know, just to stay warm out there and make, make it as best today as you can just soak up that vitamin D baby. That's right.
Justin Bogard:All right, everybody. This is episode two. I'm Justin Bogard with bright notes
Elizabeth Maora:And I'm Elizabeth With Elizabeth Maora see you guys thank you
Justin Bogard:2 wealth show is produced by Justin Bogard and super E sponsored by Brightpath notes. And Elizabeth Maora. Thanks for listening and watching for our show