2 Wealth Show S2 Ep20 - Jeff Jinks + CDC Moratorium
Justin Bogard and Super E interview Jeff Jinks on episode 20.
Key Takeaways:
Resources and links discussed
Sponsored By: Integrated Health Solutions
We are passionate about your health and wellness and we know you want to enjoy a vibrant, pain-free, active lifestyle, but when you are in pain this seems almost impossible.
In order to be pain-free, move fluidly, and enjoy an optimal level of functionality, you need a personalized yet integrated, research based and clinically proven approach and that’s what we do.
To learn more visit us at
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About the Hosts
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Super E – Real Estate Investor specializing in short-term rentals and the management of them. She connects investors with short-term tenants and manages everything in-between.
Connect with the Hosts:
2 Wealth Show S2 Ep20 - Jeff Jinks + CDC Moratorium
Justin Bogard and Super E interview Jeff Jinks on episode 20.
Key Takeaways:
Resources and links discussed
Sponsored By: Integrated Health Solutions
We are passionate about your health and wellness and we know you want to enjoy a vibrant, pain-free, active lifestyle, but when you are in pain this seems almost impossible.
In order to be pain-free, move fluidly, and enjoy an optimal level of functionality, you need a personalized yet integrated, research based and clinically proven approach and that’s what we do.
To learn more visit us at
ihsindy.com
cryotherapyindy.com
About the Hosts
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Super E – Real Estate Investor specializing in short-term rentals and the management of them. She connects investors with short-term tenants and manages everything in-between.
Connect with the Hosts:
Welcome to the, 2 wealth show a show that shares how you can create real wealth for you and your family. I'm one of your hosts, Justin Bogard. And my co-host is Elizabeth Sickles, AKA super E I am a real estate note investor specializing in performing residential real estate debt. I find the deals acquire them for my own portfolio, as well as educate investors while walking them through the process of owning a real estate note. My co-host super E, a real estate investor specializing in short-term rentals and the management of them. She connects investors with short-term tenants and manages everything in between. Our show was sponsored by bright path notes and Elizabeth Maora. You can find out more information by visiting our websites at brightpathnotes.com and elizabethmaora.com.
Elizabeth Maora:Episode number 20 of the two wealth show with Elizabeth with Elizabeth Maora everybody
Justin Bogard:I'm Justin Bogard with bright path notes. Uh, attorney Jeffrey Jinks. Here we go. Jeff knows right when to chime in. Welcome Jeff. Thanks for joining our show today. Yeah, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And look forward to talking with you and your audience. Oh, wait, we've been looking forward for this for a few episodes now. I'm glad our schedule is finally aligned.
Jeff Jinks:Yeah, definitely. Everybody's busy. So I I'm here to talk as long as you'd like to and answer anything that you might want to talk about where you gave a few ideas beforehand, but normally when I'm talking with people, I tend to like wander around a little bit. So that's good too. Hey, you know, can you hear me
Justin Bogard:Advice on a certain situation that has nothing to do with today? Looking for free legal advice?
Jeff Jinks:I just have this one question that turns into 15 sub questions. Obviously the big thing on everybody's mind is what is going on with this CDC moratorium and how does the center for disease control have any authority to do this? Well, that's a big question. That's a really big question. And honestly, the bottom line answer is that I, I really don't think they have the authority to do it. And the order that they issued is very contradictory and the guidance that they provided, the declaration they provided is very contradictory and it doesn't really have any of the normal markers that we would have in a, in a legislative act that make it easy to interpret or easy to enforce. So it's, um, it's really a big mess and, um, it's just a big mess and they, I don't think they have any authority to do what they've done, but you know, when, um, just like when the governor spoke, everybody just listened and Oh, we have to follow this because the governor spoke. But, uh, when you start challenging it, like we did in the lawsuit in federal court, you know, that ended with a quick, uh, lifting of the eviction ban on the state level from the governor. So I'm hoping that, um, you know, maybe some of the cases that are starting to percolate around the country will have the same results, um, from the C on the CDC level.
Justin Bogard:So just, just to back up for a second for our audience that don't know a lot about this CDC moratorium kind of in general, when did they put this in effect just to get a timeframe for this?
Jeff Jinks:Yeah. I'm going to reach into my magic box over here and grab the actual CDC order so that I can speak about it. I've got some other papers here too. Um, but in my magic box, I had the, you know, see how it comes through the CDC order came down, uh, late August and then was effective September 4th. So that's the effective date of the moratorium. And I guess I would maybe even back up and help your audience a little bit more to CDC stands for centers for disease control. Maybe everybody knows that, but maybe not. Um, it's under health and human services. It's a part of the federal government. So the United States federal government in Washington DC through this one agency issued this order that says no more, no evictions based on failure to pay rent. And they kind of restricted it just to that area until the end of the year. So December 31st, as you might remember, the governor kept re-upping his emergency authority every 30 days and the federal government doesn't have that kind of limitation. So they just put it out for, to the end of the year, December 31st, unless it's extended again, or some new order replaces it before that or after it. And, you know, I, I think a lot of it, of course, is political, you know, various motivations to, um, garner favor. But, uh, it's a, it's a political order, I think, guised as, or disguised as a public health measure. And I can go into that a little bit more too, if you like.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, no. Sure. Thanks for kind of put putting that out there, the intro as far as what it is and when it got in effect and kind of what, what they're doing. So this isn't just, so this is state level and it's, it's federal too correct.
Jeff Jinks:The order comes from the federal government, but it applies to every state and every court in the country. So evictions really are a state court matter. Okay. So if you want to evict somebody, it's always in a small claims court in the state of Indiana or Marion County or Hamilton County or Johnson County, those are state courts and they're receiving this order from the federal government saying, Oh, now what do we do next? And that's part of where the confusion lies. The premise of the order is that if people are evicted, then they are at risk of gathering together in clustered housing units. That would more likely possibly spread COVID-19 that's the premise under it. But of course the other aspect is that the order only applies if you don't pay rent. So if there's 10 other reasons that you could evict somebody other than non-payment of rent, that's okay. No public health crisis, but it fits a non-payment of rent. Then it's a public health crisis. So it's, uh, you know, suspect to me and many others. I think that the CDC issued disorder, um, I don't think they have the authority to enter, to intervene in all the landlord tenant contracts around the country. I don't think they have the authority to intervene in state court proceedings. Um, I don't think they have the authority to take basically landlord's property and steal it from them and give it to tenants. I mean, it's just, it's wrong on a hundred levels, but, um, that's where we're at right now until we get some more litigation.
Justin Bogard:So someone chooses, sorry, Elizabeth. So someone chooses not to pay rent. They would fall in this category of hitting, getting in the moratorium. Is that what, is that what you're saying?
Jeff Jinks:That's exactly what I'm saying. So, uh, imagine if you have a tenant and your lease started on January 1st to December 31st, and they haven't been paying rent for a couple months, uh, you would normally go and evict them for non-payment of rent. However, if they had a lease that started, uh, August 31st and ended August 31st of 2020. And so their lease was really over, um, you could evict that person because the lease is expired, not necessarily for unpaid rent, even though they weren't paying any way, but right. So you can say, your honor, I want to evict them because this contract is over with. And I, um, or if there was a crime being committed or there was destruction of property or, um, you know, criminal activity was taking place or some other term in your lease was being, there was too many people there on unregistered people that, um, not unregistered like illegal aliens, but you have a lease with a family and all those people are identified. So you brought in new family members or outsiders, and they're not on the lease. You could, you know, force the middle East to end or evict those people, at least that are not on the lease. So that would be another, you know, another aspect of it,
Elizabeth Maora:Very interesting, you know, especially when you dive into those details. And I'm just curious, I didn't think about it until we started. Is, are there any moratoriums or any guidelines around commercial property?
Jeff Jinks:No, it's only residential is the only thing that we're dealing with right now. Uh, commercial leases are being enforced and you can evict people, uh, or businesses for nonpayment of their commercial lease and, uh, sensibly that's because if you move the business, it doesn't matter to COVID. Right. So, but they're worried about, um, the policy is trying to protect people from losing a home and then being forced into a less desirable housing circumstance that might create a infection problem. All of which are, you know, speculative at the best, um, let alone, you know, whether they're really true or not. Those are very, very interesting aspects.
Elizabeth Maora:Can you talk a little bit about the lawsuit that you filed, um, on the state level, and that was really interesting that you referenced the Magnacarta. And can you just talk about what that process is like and some of the things that you did reference, because I think maybe, maybe, sometimes people think, Oh, well, you know, you just file a lawsuit, but, um, I'm sure it's a lot more in-depth than that.
Jeff Jinks:Yeah, it's it was pretty, um, it's pretty intense. And thank you for giving me the chance to talk about that. And I would really want to emphasize that it was a team approach. I mean, we had four lawyers working on that, including a law professor that only does constitutional law. And we were gathering, um, documents from all over the country from other lawsuits and seeing what other lawyers were doing with the eviction bands in those States and what governors had said. And so you were comparing a particular governor's order for instance, in Michigan or California or Illinois, to what our governor had said. And then you were looking at the statue that the governor was operating under and comparing the language of their statute with their order. And then comparing that over here to Indiana's statute and the emergency powers that were happening, and then looking at the underlying constitutional provisions and saying, how do all of these play together and how do they in our view? And I think rightly so violate the federal constitution and then whether Indiana constitution was also violated because Indiana has its own constitution. And it has many of the same provisions that the federal constitution has are similar. Um, they titled them differently and the wording is slightly different, but most of the protections are, uh, similar if not greater in Indiana than on the federal level. So you have to wind all of that together. Um, we made a reference, excuse me, to the Magna Carta. And unless you're a law nerd, like you Elizabeth, who knows about the Magna Carta, that's like 12 a year, like 12, 16, seriously, 800 years ago. Um, in England, the King was forced to sign, uh, the Magna Carta, which is called the great charter Magna it's Latin, and basically all the nobility who were the, the rulers under the game said, look, we have these rights and you can't take them away. And there's a famous, um, painting and a famous event that, uh, in London, there's a place called Runnymede, which is a giant park, right? Basically a, a lawn, a park, and they had the King there and they had him at the point of the sword and are like, you're going to sign this or we're going to kill you. And you're going to affirm our rights. And they had all these different rights of Englishman that then kind of bled over to the American constitution. When we, when we created ours, one of them being, you cannot take property from us without paying us a fair compensation. And all of the interesting, cool thing about that is that's our fifth amendment takings clause. So anybody that's had their land taken by a road widening in DOD or something like that. And that's because in 12, 16, the Lord's put their boot on the neck of the King and a sword to his neck and said, sign or die. And he signed. And, um, this right of property is so fundamental that it's persisted and it is the only unbelief. It like 39 different rights in Magna Carta. It is the only rights still on the books in England today. That was part of Magna Carta. It's that powerful, that deep, that important, that fundamental it's bedrock. You can't steal our property and complicate it for yourself King, which is what the governor, which is what the CDC is doing without paying us a fair compensation, fair market value and whatnot, and going through a process for it. So when, when we were doing that and, uh, we put that in there and I kind of looked it up. I did, you know, double checking, like what was kind of amazing, but literally it is the only ride there's maybe two others, but two or three rights out of 37 or 39 in the Magna Carta are still literally on the statute books in England today. None of the others they've all been absorbed in different areas or whatever, not to say that they weren't important, but blow me away. Unbelievable. Yeah, no doubt. That's going to take us. That's why we need extra time today. We use as much time as we need. I feel like we just went back to Braveheart days. We did that seriously. We did love it. So that's a Magna Carta. That's what was happening in that lawsuit, all the different statutory provisions and constitutional things.
Justin Bogard:So is there anything in that moratorium that relates to, uh, mortgages?
Jeff Jinks:No, it's only, um, leasing landlord tenant. And, um, I say that, and as soon as the words like pop out of my mouth, I would tell you that there are members of the tenants bar and sort of some civil rights advocates that believe that the CDC moratorium would apply to both land contracts and rent to own lease options, type of scenarios where once the, and really focusing on that, the ownership part of it, they're trying to drag all of that into just the straight up landlord tenant provision. And so those lawyers are advising other members of the bar and judges and whatnot to try to, you know, bring all of that into the CDC moratorium, even though it really it's explicitly about non-payment of rent
Justin Bogard:That. And I, I believe that to be true as well. That's what I don't like about land contracts is that it always puts you in the middle of, you know, landlord or being a note holder, even though you're a note holder, but you still have those, those, you know, you're on the deed, which is what I don't like to be only in contract. Hi, you know, and then I'm a hypocritical guy. That's still buys them, you know, out. Right. But, uh, anyway, yeah, that's, that's always, I mean, I've Elizabeth heard my stick on that for years about just convert to a note mortgage or write a note mortgage from the beginning. So
Jeff Jinks:No, there's a lot of merit to that and it does create confusion and as much. Um, and I'll talk about a little bit more, but as much as you would think, it's obvious that a land contract is not a lease. It is not obvious and the, the way they're implemented, the way they're applied, the way they're written, the way, you know, different parties set the deal up. Um, it can look a lot like a lease. And so that's where it becomes confusing and difficult for judges to interpret and implement this stuff.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, you're right. I, I remember, I know we're getting off track a little bit, but every land contract I see it's, it's never a uniform land contract. It's always some really different language in there when somebody like me that actually reads them because I want to understand what I'm buying or what I, what I'm creating. And it is very interesting how they're not uniform and they're completely different. Some are one page is more 15 pages
Jeff Jinks:And what's on those pages is different.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. Yeah. It's different. Um, anyway, sorry, I shoot down a ladder, but thanks for clarifying all that and tell us what could happen with the, as it relates to note investing as well.
Jeff Jinks:Well, yeah. And I'll, uh, go ahead and Elizabeth, sorry.
Elizabeth Maora:That's why it's so important because you might think, Oh, well, I'm not a landlord that doesn't apply to me, but, you know, look at what Jeff just explained on how this is going out to land contracts and it's, it's all encompassing. So all of our real estate investors and our housing providers out there really need to be on top of this stuff. And also with the elections coming up, if you're voting for judges, make sure you know, what their stance is and what their record is
Jeff Jinks:So far. If I could, I'd like to segue for just a second to a hearing that we had a week ago and one of the small claims courts on the CDC moratorium and explain a little bit more of what's the fact pattern, what happened there and also how it applies, um, if that's okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, under the moratorium, in order for the moratorium to even apply a tenant has to sign an affidavit. It's called a declaration. And at the end of this order that came out right back at the end of August, there's a, uh, form that the CDC road, and they said, here's a sample, but it could be anything else. But if you, you can't use this sample and if the tenant signs it and gives it to the landlord, not even the court, but they give it to the landlord, then they can't be evicted. And, um, what has happened is that not every landlord knows about this declaration, not every court even knows about it. Um, and then some of the courts are actually giving this out in court. So a week ago we had a hearing and, uh, the judge, uh, graves in Marion County, small claims court, Warren township, and just tell you the facts. I'm not disparaging him at all, but you know, he, at the beginning of his docket read the whole CDC moratorium into the record and told every tenant what they needed to do in order to not get evicted, which I think is improper for a judge to, well, it is improper to take an advocacy position for one side or the other and help them, you know, help them and, um, actually provide those forms and tell them, you know, what to do with it. So, uh, he does that at the beginning of his eviction docket. And then what we did was a tenant signed that and we thought the tenant was not truthful. So we asked for a hearing and said, your honor, we think that this is wrong. We want to object to this declaration because once they give it to us, we have to stop the eviction. So we wanted to make it a record so that we could go up on appeal or hopefully win at the trial court level. And this eviction could go forward by saying the moratorium doesn't apply. The declaration is false. Don't let them get away with it basically. And we had probably a 30 minute argument where we went through point by point, this declaration and I, and really three out of the seven points and said, this tenant does not qualify for number one, number three, and number four. And we presented evidence, you know, documented evidence, why that was true. And the tenant didn't even show up for this hearing, which is another kind of bizarre, you know, but the court was like giving them deference to it. It's like, well, I believe everybody. That's what he said. I believe everybody. I'm like, well, you can, until you are presented with like additional evidence to decide whether they're, you know, lying or just not being fully truthful. And judge graves wanted us to, um, he wanted to kick it out of his court. He wanted to say, look, your remedy here is to go to the federal government and complain to them. Or you can try to get the attorney general to prosecute for perjury, which is never going to happen. Right. He just wanted out of his court and we're like, no, you still have to deal with this. Yeah. You have to deal with whether or not this person is being truthful. And, um, one of the points was that, uh, I'm going to read it here real quick. Just make sure I say it exactly right from the, and this is why this is so poorly written on. I get so angry about government writing statutes are terrible. So the, uh, the first thing is that the tenant has to say, I have used quote, on quote, best efforts to obtain all available government assistance for rent or housing. Well, what does best efforts mean? Hey, what is all available? Government assistance mean B and what we proved is that he didn't apply for any government assistance. His wife did, but his wife's not on the lease and his wife, the response was you make too much money. Your income went up during COVID. You don't qualify. So you don't get any of the government assistance. So we know that he applied, or his wife applied for one. So we just said, look, he doesn't qualify. Step one, he hasn't applied for any others. He hasn't gotten any others. There's utility programs. There's township, trustee all has money. There's all different kinds of government programs that are out there, but he didn't apply for any of them. His wife applied for one and was denied. So I said, strike one, you, you know, you lose. Um, but terrible, terrible language. Uh, the next one that he failed on was, um, unable to pay my full rent due to substantial loss of household income. Well, that's false. Like I just said, so he, he failed it on two different counts. His income went up, so he loses right. And a number, the next one I'm using best efforts. I don't know what that means to make timely partial payments where he made no payments. So We're like, your honor, he hasn't made a payment since may. It's now almost November. There's nothing that's been paid. Um, that is not best efforts. That's not time. I don't care. You know, he didn't even pay a dollar. Right. So we went through all those. And the judge was getting a little testy with me. And, um, afterwards it was a zoom call like this. And so all the lawyers in the room can hear what's being argued about. And I'm getting a phone call from lawyer that says, I do 600 evictions a month. You're the first lawyer that has attacked the CDC thing. All of our clients are afraid to do it. They just won't attack it. Yeah. I know. I'm like, why not? Why aren't you guys objecting every single time? Well, our clients don't want to. I'm like, well, you got to, you have to object. Even if you lose 600 times, you got to do it and take it up on appeal sometime. So that's what's happening. Um, you know, judge graves, it was the first time I know it's only been out there five weeks or whatever, but it's hundreds of cases and he's leading his whole docket with the idea of giving these papers out to people. And lots of others said other lawyers and other litigants said, yeah, just give me the paper. I'll fill it out. And the, you know, it's just going to be continued until January. So just on, it's a staggering, um, to me that landlords have allowed themselves to be steamrolled like that. So we'll see what the ruling is and go from there.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. Thanks Jeff, for sharing all that, that was great information and a great of factual information that, you know, you've experienced. So thank you very much for sharing that.
Jeff Jinks:Yeah. You're welcome. It's frustrating.
Justin Bogard:It sounds, yeah, it does sound like it.
Elizabeth Maora:And one thing I don't think people that are thinking about, you know, I mean at, at some point you had to pay the Piper, right? And so me as a landlord, like we're getting ready to put up a property as a long-term as a traditional rental. Well, my criteria, it just increased. My security deposit has increased. So the tenant is going to have more to pay because we have to make sure if they do something ridiculous like this again, that my client, the landowner that he's covered, he or she is covered. So They're thinking about that.
Jeff Jinks:No, they're not, they're not thinking through it at all. And of course, they're, they're also building up, you know, four months or five months worth of non-payment of rent for all these tenants saying, Oh, you're going to have to pay it, but they're not going to be able to. And so it's an incentive really for the landlords to go ahead and try for the damages. And when they get up that high, they they're incentivized to do it, which is going to be a collection problem and a credit worthiness problem for tenants going forward. So it's really, you know, it seems like the government wants to be friendly, but they're not, and they're creating a bigger problem than existed. And the, the numbers of evictions just are not the catastrophe that has been played out in the media, the 30 and 40,000, you know, evictions or hundreds of thousands that were going to happen. It's just completely false. We knew that we've said it before. Um, and it's the fact is most people pay the rent and most people have been able to unemployment is not even that low. I mean, it's, you know, we're not even that high, it's a, it's a pretty good economy. All things considered and people are paying the rent. So, um, it's just, it's really frustrating to see how that's playing out. So I, I, a hundred percent agree with you. It's got a lot of unintended consequences.
Elizabeth Maora:I just want to make sure too that our audience, whether you're watching this, or if you're listening to us that you also know that Jeff is the attorney for the Indiana state real estate investors association. So, um, he's just such a wealth of knowledge. And, um, you know, we appreciate all you do for all of us, the housing providers and investors. So thank you.
Jeff Jinks:Yeah, no, thank you. It's my pleasure, my honor, you know, we, this is our total focus. Our business is representing investors and housing providers and residential, commercial, whatever, and developers, and, um, you know, we see how it impacts everybody. And it's got a trickle-down effect from just every aspect of the business and the industry. So, um, we're honored to be part of it. We really love this type of client that we work with. That's why we devoted our practice that way a number of years ago. And it's just been a lot of fun. We like, we like landlords. I love my landlord phrase. I love my
Elizabeth Maora:That's right. I just, this is kind of a fun aside. I was telling the guys before we started, I have the political sign of a candidate, um, con uh, anyways, and then I also have the, I love my landlord side right beside that at my personal property. And they left the, I love my landlord times, but they stole my other one. I'm going to take care of that. Yeah, I guess, Jeff, what kind of advice can you give to our audience on, um, just on everything that's going on and especially with the elections coming up, just what can they do no matter where they are as a housing provider, or if they're wanting to get into the real estate market, what would you tell them?
Jeff Jinks:Um, well there's number one. I would say stay in it for the long, long haul. Um, this is a big market. Housing is a essential, essential industry, real estates and essential industry has been shown even during the COVID. And, uh, there's really a lack of housing. There's not enough housing out there and we need more people coming into the industry, providing housing. Um, I look at the stats that we see every month on values of property. And they're going up, up, up, up, up up part of that's a little bit of inflation, but a lot of it is driven by demand and a lack of supply. And so I think that, um, all the different kinds of housing that we can provide, we need just more of everything, basically more single family, more duplex, more multi-family, more apartments, more everything. We just, we don't have near enough and we need investors to pool their money. Um, I think, and not just think, what can they do on a one-off, but say, Hey, let's get 10 of us together. And do, you know, build some houses somewhere, uh, or build a small development or build an apartment or something like that. And, um, you know, pool your resources and get partners and do more together rather than only by yourself, you know, not, not criticizing your own individual efforts, but I'm just saying there's a huge need of housing, uh, in the economy. And, uh, really just need more of that. So, you know, pour it on because there's not enough. That means rents are rising everywhere, except for the places people are fleeing and San Francisco and Seattle. And, you know, some of these other markets than Chicago that are just, you know, they don't seem to understand supply and demand in those places. Um, I don't get it. So just to see cause this, see what happens, but we need all those investors are coming to Indiana, right? All the West coast is coming to Indiana and the Midwest because things are more stable here and a much better legal environment and much better pricing, much better housing ratios for the income to rent or income to mortgage income, to notes, Justin, right They can be private note investors and he be buying and in great cap rates compared to the rest of the country. And, um, so that'd be my advice, you know, it's always, uh, by, on the sound of cannon, right? That's JP Morgan, the banker hundreds of years ago. Also when you see these kind of crazy scenarios, it's a buying opportunity and this market, is this going to be stronger and stronger? I think,
Justin Bogard:Well, Jeff, that was probably one of the best closing statements we've had since we've been doing this podcast, get a great job. And we're very fortunate to have you as legal counsel for our state REIA. Thanks for all the time that you put in the, the bonus time that you put in without any consideration. So thank you for that as well. So Jeff welcome. Um, how can people get ahold of Jeff jinks law and what type of law, um, is your specialty so that we can direct people your way and how would they get ahold of like through your website or through an email?
Jeff Jinks:Yeah, the website would be the best. Um, there's a contact us button on the website and somebody get out of the way, right? So there's the, I just put that in and then, uh, jeffjinkslaw.com and contact us, or they can call us on the phone and we'll set up a conference conference call. Uh, the phone number is(317) 810-1400. And I do constant phone conferences with people, even if there's not a good case, we talk through it and try to give people direction. Um, and then if they hire us great, um, if there's not a case, then they, you know, we just move them on to some other solution. So there's lots of different things we can do. And there's no cost for that or no obligation, either
Justin Bogard:Real estate law is the law that you promote the most.
Jeff Jinks:Yeah, it's all of our clients, I guess I want to say it this way. And our positioning statement is that unlike other law firms that tell you what they do, we define ourselves by the people we represent and those clients are real estate investors. And so whatever a real estate investor needs, you know, that's where we get involved in a lot of times, it's transactional. Sometimes it's business entity work, sometimes it's estate planning because they start to feel their way through and say, wait a minute. Now what happens if I were to have a tragedy, I need this to make sure that my family's taken care of. So we cover all of that, uh, tax work, zoning work, all kinds of things, but litigation, if things go bad, partnerships go bad, or we put them together one way or the other. So it's really a wide ranging practice. That's lots of fun focused only on real estate investors. Awesome.
Justin Bogard:Thanks Jeff. Once again, that's Jeffjinkslaw.com. Correct.
Jeff Jinks:You got it. Thank you. Awesome,
Justin Bogard:Elizabeth. We are, we're definitely at a time. This was, this has been a fantastic episode. Number 20 with no other than mr. Jeff Jinks from Indianapolis.
Jeff Jinks:Great. Thanks guys. I really appreciate the time. Have a good day,
Justin Bogard:Everybody. Don't forget to check out our YouTube channels@brightpathnotes.com. I'm sorry. Brightpath notes. YouTube channel. There's there's my blooper for today and then Elizabeth Maora YouTube channel as well. So I'm Justin Bogard with bright path notes,
Elizabeth Maora:Elizabeth with Elizabeth Maora, until next time, see ya.
Justin Bogard:2 wealth show was produced by Justin Bogard and super E sponsored by Brightpath notes. And Elizabeth Maora. Thanks for listening and watching.