Be The Bank

005 - Higher Risk = Bigger Return

April 08, 2020 Justin Bogard & Super E Season 2 Episode 5
Be The Bank
005 - Higher Risk = Bigger Return
Show Notes Transcript

2 Wealth Show S2 Ep 5 – Higher Risk = Bigger Return

Super E and Justin Bogard interview Dan Deppen in the 5th episode of season 2. 

Get to know who Dan Deppen is! 

Key Takeaways:  

  1. Spectrum of Performance: Non-Performing or Sub-Performing
  2. REOs, PPMs
  3. Team in Place

Resources and links discussed  

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About the Hosts 

Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!  

Super E – Real Estate Investor specializing in short-term rentals and the management of them. She connects investors with short-term tenants and manages everything in-between. 

Connect with the Hosts: 

  • @2wealthshow – Facebook/Instagram 
  • @wealth_show - Twitter 

 

Justin Bogard:

Welcome to the 2 Wealth show, a show that shares how you can create real wealth for you and your family. I'm one of your hosts, Justin Bogard and my cohost is Elizabeth Sickles, AKA super E. I am a real estate note investor specializing in performing residential real estate debt. I find the deals quire them for my own portfolio as well as educate investors while walking them through the process of owning a real estate note, my cohost super E, a real estate investor specializing in short term rentals and the management of them. She connects investors with short term tenants and manages everything in between. Our show was sponsored by BrightPath notes and Elizabeth Maora. You can find out more information by visiting our website at brightpathnotes.com and Elizabeth Maora.com

Elizabeth Maora:

hello everybody and welcome to episode number five. I am Elizabeth Maora, AKA super E and hi super E. I'm Justin Bogard with bright path notes and um, well this is like you said, episode five and we've got a special guest on for today. Mr Dan Deppen from uh, Colorado. Is it Boulder, Colorado?

Dan Deppen:

I'm close to[inaudible]. It's actually Erie Colorado. Ben, about 20 minutes from Boulder.

Justin Bogard:

So close enough. Erie, Colorado. That sounds scary. Is it scary dan? No, not really. That's actually pretty nice. Just kidding. That was my, that was one of my dad jokes. I get a lot of grief for the dad jokes that I do. Anyways, Dan, thanks for being on. I know that, um, we've kind of known each other through note investing for, I don't know, maybe two or three years now and you definitely put yourself out there on social media and you definitely have a good following and stuff. So we're kind of honored that you would, uh, want to be interviewed on our podcast. And so kind of the thing that we do is we talk about wealth and obviously being a note investing and note investor, you know, you can build your wealth, you know, passively or you can build it actively through a nonperforming loans.

Dan Deppen:

And I believe that's kind of what your specialty is, is nonperforming loans, is that correct? Yeah, that's most of what I've done. And you know, people will find that nonperforming note loans or we'll get into it. But they're not passive at all. They're the opposite of passive usually. Yeah. They are not passive. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you've had the pleasure of having a nonperforming loan. No, I have not. You know, they, there can be some very large rewards. Um, but also it'd be very patient. It's a long play, but sometimes in Dan can attest to this and went, we'll probably touch on this a little bit is how quickly you can get some of these back to performing or turn them into REOs and we'll explain about that later. All right, so let's go ahead and get into some questions with Dan. So, um, if you don't mind if I ask Dan to come a personal question is Dan, you, you got a family, right? You've got a of kids and a wife out there. Just so people get to know you are my wife and I have two daughters, so they're 11 and 13 now. So we've got, um, you know, we'll have one starting high school next year, so we're getting into the teenage daughters face. Keeps us pretty busy, that's for sure. I bet. And then my wife is also an engineer like me, but she still works on the in the industry. So that works kind of good for us. So she kinda has the base salary and benefits and then, you know, I do my real estate stuff full time on the other side. Well that's good. I kind of worked out for you. So you were formally an aerospace engineer. Yeah. So sort of a master's in bachelor's in mechanical engineering. And so yeah, I worked in the aerospace industry for about 15 years or so, doing a variety of things. Mechanism design was kind of my, my specialty that I did. And then I, I enjoy doing that but I reached a point where I got kind of tired of doing government contracting. So for anybody who's been involved in that, you find that there are terms where okay your customer has money, you're crazy busy. And then there's other times where they don't and you're kind of sitting on your hands. Well you still have to show up for work and sit there cause you're billing the government. And so that those, those times I didn't like as much. And then I left at one point did my MBA at the university of Colorado in Boulder and then went to work as a product manager and went to work for Oracle. I'm really got to put the MBA to work during a lot of marketing and sales enablement, things like that. Um, and then also got the basically travel the world. You don't want all over the place assisting them, the sales force and then about, yes, it was August of 18 by a year and a half ago now. Um, I had been doing notes on the side as this stuff was going along and then I flipped over to working on notes full time. Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big jump, isn't it? From going to a, to a steady income to a, I don't know if I'm going to have income. It is, yeah. It definitely takes some getting used to. Um, you know, I've gotten kind of used to it and for me, like, like I mentioned, like, you know, I've got the stability of my wife has a really amazing W2 job and, and the reality is, even if I made no money, we could kind of live off of that. So I wasn't really taking that big of a risk. Plus if I ever really wanted to, I could go back and get another job as a product manager, you know, fairly readily. Um, you know, I know other people who are doing this where that's their only income, that would be a, that would be a lot scarier. But yeah, it does. It is, you know, tough sometimes where you go through stretches where, um, you know, you're working like crazy. Um, but money's not hitting the account. Right? Yeah. But then other times, you know, you have a home run deal, exits, and then you get this windfall. So it's very, uh, it's very lumpy and I found that over time to get a little bit desensitized to it, so. Okay.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah, for sure. It's definitely scary. I know we both had inter, we interviewed each other the first couple of episodes on the two Wealth show here and that's, you know, kind of some of the things we talked about was this jumping from corporate life or you know, consistent W2 life to really,

Dan Deppen:

you know, scratching for cash. I was a kid, I used to like to play chutes and ladders and it kind of feels like that. Like it kind of feels like you get on these runs on weeks where you know, three or four things will happen that are negative and then I'll get on other runs like this past week where whole bunch of things that are good happen in a row. So yeah, there's definitely kind of a mental game to it. And when you do get on that run of kind of bad news, whatever that may be, you got to kind of just really just got to kind of stick it out and wait for things to, to turn around as I mentioned. Yeah, you do get a little bit desensitized cause now when I get bad news I'm kind of like, Oh I've seen this before. You know, like, uh, you know, some code violation fine that I didn't expect. It's like, okay, I've seen a bunch of these, not a big deal. Um, and then sometimes you get the good outcomes. Like I've had two times recently where borrowers made payments of a couple thousand dollars. Um, but then that rolls off after a while too. So, yeah. But definitely fun business. Awesome. So how did you get into nonperforming notes? Yeah, so I was, well, you know, I'm not sure why specifically non-performing versus performing. I think what I liked about them is there's, there's more of a chance for, um, you know, a bigger return, you know. So when I started, I started with performing notes cause I was new to, you know, my background was in stock investing and things like that. So I started with performing notes just to like learn the paperwork and get used to the way the transactions work. Um, and my big thing I noticed right away was just how slow real estate transactions are as opposed to like online stocks where you literally click a button, right. And, and the trade is on. So these things that might take a couple of weeks to develop, took a little bit of getting used to and then, you know, had to, you know, figure out the due diligence process and things like that. Um, but then once I got comfortable with that, then I was able to add in the non-performing side, which adds a bunch of, uh, moving parts. I think I've always been attracted to things that our little nichier and that sometimes other people are afraid to get involved in. So I kind of liked the idea of non-performing because it's, it's definitely a high risk but can be higher reward. And so my approach is, well, I can, you know, I think I can put together a good system to manage these things and take advantage of this, you know, niche your market where not really as many people playing.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. It's funny. So we're both in the note business, but he's the opposite of me. And like, I definitely prefer performing loans that he prefers non for me. So we're, we're a good contrast to each other.

Dan Deppen:

Yeah. And as time goes on, I've been doing more performing, you know, and then, and then just selling partials against them. Um, cause one thing I've found is it's for new and performing, it's a heck of a lot easier to scale. Yeah. So if I look at, you know, my portfolio performing ones really can become passive, you know, and now there's the risk that they go bad and then you have to do more work. Um, but there's definitely a lot more brain damage required per note on the non-performing side. And I kind of focus in lately is almost more of I call like the sub performing where they're, they're technically non-performing. They might be 60 or 90 days plus behind or maybe like 60 days behind. So you can get those at a, at a better price. And then I've got a pretty good, pretty high rate of getting those kinds of loans back to performing. So when I do do performing, um, my goal is always to try to get rehab the borrower and get it performing again. I w w I've sometimes done it, but I rarely go into a a a non-performing deal where I know it's going to be a foreclosure and I know I'm going to end up with the property. I'll do it if I think it makes sense on that particular deal. But generally, um, trying to stay away from that

Justin Bogard:

for the most part. So I should have probably started the conversation on what's performing and what's not performing and sub performing. So thanks for lightly define that. But just for our viewing audience, our listening audience, so we're talking about real estate and note investing. So we're investing on the mortgage on the property. So it could be a land contract, contract for deed or a note mortgage, deed of trust, depending on what state of your inward investing in debt. And it could be a someone that has defaulted on that debt or somebody that has it paying every month. And that's what we're talking about. So somebody is paying every month on time. It's a performing loan and someone that doesn't pay on time and is delinquent by three months or more, we call that non-performing. And anything in between sub performing, which it sounds like you're trying to get into right now.

Dan Deppen:

Yeah. And you know it's funny we talked to people across the industry, like especially when you get into that said performing range. A lot of people have their own definitions. Yeah. Really it's like a spectrum of performance. I think one mistake some people make is do you look here at Alana? Nice. Everything's current. It's paying reliably, everything's perfect and that's performing and anything less is non-performing. Um, but really it's kind of like a spectrum. There are many flavors of nonperforming. So I do nonperforming but I try to get as close to the performing side as I can.

Justin Bogard:

Absolutely. And it's, it's the most lucrative part of the note business. If you can find that sweet spot right there between the non-performing. Yeah. Yeah. Like he's saying, cause if you, if you purchase, let's say you purchase a property at a really discounted price, but the property is in pristine condition, then you, you know, you basically get a run there, right? Cause you could turn it over quickly and get a large capital return because of the low input, you know, the low price point that she got it for. So same thing with non-performance, you'd get at a low price point and the borrowers are definitely trying to work with you and the house is in pristine condition. You know, you do happen to take it back through whatever means if they just can't afford to live there, it becomes a very profitable situation for you. So that's why, you know it's high risk, high reward with non performing loans.

Dan Deppen:

Yeah. Yeah for sure. By then when you get to the ones like I see a lot for sale where there've been no payments for five years and the house is vacant where you know you're going to get it, get the property back, those are ultra high risk. You better be getting those like really, really, really cheap. Cause I found that nothing ever good happens with those kinds of houses usually. I bet.

Justin Bogard:

I know you got some stories.

Dan Deppen:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, you know, so like I was mentioning, you know, my, my strategy is generally try to get them re-performing and if I buy right by my model, um, I'll do that about two thirds of the time. Nice. It leaves a portion of the time where you end up taking the property back either through the foreclosure process or sometimes a forfeiture process. If it's a contract for deed, which is very similar. I think of it as like the same process, but it's a little bit different. Um, or sometimes borrowers are ready to leave and they just do a deem loo. Um, and that, and that's where things get interesting when you take the property back. So I find that, you know, the handful that I usually have that have taken back in my portfolio, um, they ended up taking an outsize portion of my time to deal with. Um, so when, you know, people are getting ready to take these back, you know, sometimes when people are new note investors, they're not familiar with even what to do. Um, and kind of the main thing is just being ready ahead of time and have someone teed up to secure the property. Um, get it winterized, depending on the time of year and the location. And there are a lot of different ways you can do that. I bet there are some national, some REO companies that are just kind of turnkey. We'll do everything for you. Um, I haven't had a ton of success with those. Um, sometimes they'll do okay in the first deal and then kind of dropped the ball after that. And it can be very expensive as well. I'm working with one actually that, that somebody recommended to me that that's been better. So then working with them. Um, but ideally I have my own vendors there to work with. And you know, when things run the best is when I have a really good realtor on the ground. Because if you have a realtor who, some realtors will specialize in foreclosures and REOs, and then usually they've got their team of local vendors, you can change the locks, you can do a clean-out. Um, you can take care of everything that you need afterwards. That's generally the, the easiest way to go. But you know, to find the right realtor to require some legwork and some times, so there's a, there's a off there. So you know, in a perfect world you'd be concentrating on certain cities and then finding your GoTo people there. So one of the things I'll do if I'm buying a non-performer, if it's in one of my GoTo cities where I have a good team, like say Cincinnati for example, um, all things being equal, I'm probably going to be willing to pay a little bit more for that loan. Cause I know if I end up taking the property back, I've got a team on the ground that will be able to handle everything. I'm not going to have to sweat it, right? If it's another one that's in some city or some state, especially where I've never done anything before, I might still buy that loan. But I'm going to need better pricing because I'm going to have to get a team in place. There's going to be more headaches, there's going to be more risk because you know, we've probably all done this in real estate where you hire somebody to to do something and it doesn't quite work out, you know? So there's the risk of of that as well.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah, I think we've all been there. Done that locally or across the cross state lines there.

Dan Deppen:

Yeah, I've done a bunch and for me, all of my stuff is in other States, so I don't actually, I haven't, I'm not opposed to it, but I haven't actually bought any notes in Colorado. So most of my stuff is in the Midwest, so I'm always working at a distance as well. So for me, the, the quality of the vendor relationships that I already have established is kind of key and where I'm bidding on things and how aggressively I'm willing to do.

Justin Bogard:

Next question please. What's the next question? Go ahead. Where are we at? Oh, help me out. I get lost easily. I,

Dan Deppen:

Oh yeah, no, that's no way I could talk about this stuff. I don't even really need questions.

Justin Bogard:

Well, we try to drive a format here. We're trying to stick to, to the process ourselves. We're still learning. We're, we're rookies at this. That's right. One of the things maybe just before we go into the questions though, if you don't mind, um, we were talking before about the fact that you have a fund. Oh yeah. And that you're sec compliant. Can you talk to us about that and kind of tell our listeners what you're doing with that? Cause it's a very, it's a model actually I've not heard of.

Dan Deppen:

Oh sure. So, so at the end of last year I stood up a fund called the fusion income fund. Um, you know, similar to some other note funds that it pays a flat preferred return. And for me that was a big learning curve, getting that set up. Cause while I've looked at other funds before, I've never actually set one up myself. Um, I ended up using Jillian Sidoti at Trowbridge Sidoti to set that up. And, and that was great. And one of the things I learned is when you're going to set up a fund, there are a million different options. I think Ji;lian has a chart. I think there's like eight or 10 different options. Cause with some of the new updates to the sec rules a few years ago, it created some new ones and there's a variety of choices you can make between what type of, in which choices you make will determine what kind of investors you can take on, where they have to be accredited or not and then how openly you can talk about that and how you can market it. And then also on the expense side as well with the five Oh six C option. So I can, I can talk about the fund, I can market it. Um, do things like that. I mean within the basic rules of the sec. So you can, and I'm not an attorney, I'm not an expert on all these rules, but we're holding you to it. We're holding you deal with Dan. Yeah. I mean you can never do things like, um, you know, promise returns and you know, things like that. There's just some bedrock things you can never do. But with the option that I chose, you know, I can't talk about it on podcasts or you know, post things on like on my website, just the trade off is I can only take accredited investors into the fund. And so I forget exactly what the definition is, but I think to be an accredited investor, you need, I think it's like$1 million of net worth outside of your primary residence. And I think the income might be, I think it might be like 200,000 a year as an individual or 300,000 married. I'm not sure if they've adjusted that in the past year. But then I use a third party, a company to do the verification of that. So I can't accidentally take money for the fund from someone who, who wasn't re-accredited. So, but yeah, I leaned on Jillian heavily, um, as I put that together and she was really great. I mean, a little more expensive than some of the other options, but okay. I mean, when I was setting up a fund, especially the first time you ever do something, you don't know what you don't know. So I asked a ton of question. I did a ton of research and I, um, I was able to get my hands on a lot of PPMS from various other note funds. Cause when you get into the PPM etic mine's like a 60 page document. Oh is that all? Just a light read by read. So I thought about my background, right. So I can do, I have an engineering brain, then I can do marketing and I can do real estate. I run it pretty wide range, but I'm not, I don't have an attorney brain at all. So yeah. So I had a hard time plowing through all of that stuff. I finally got it together and that's up and going now. So, so that's been good. And the reason I did that mainly, where's the kind of, um, you know, as my business was scaling, you know, to try to simplify things a little bit, you know. So I've been doing mostly, um, done a lot of joint ventures on nonperforming loans. But in the fund I'm actually doing more performing and more of that, you know, SUB performing closer to performing. So it's a little more scalable. Right. But then I still do joint ventures and other things and I do more of the non-performing, um, just just outside of the outside of the phone. So it's been a pretty big learning experience. So maybe I'll have to have like Jillian on or somebody like that to deep dive on how the guy's kind of a fascinating world and all that was. You're right. It's definitely, it gets complex pretty quickly. It's good to have somebody like

Justin Bogard:

Jillian. Uh, I've talked to Jillian a couple of times, I'd never done a PPM just so that the audience is clear. A PPM is a private placement memorandum. So it's what usually hedge funds and institutions do when they gather their pool of investors together and they put together some sort of documentation. That's kind of what the documentation is called a private placement memorandum or PPM. So

Dan Deppen:

right. Cause cause I know is a security. So if you're doing something outside of the PPM, like a joint venture or other things, um, you know, you can do that, but there are certain rules you have to follow and one of them is that you can't pull by doing the PPM, you're basically able to create pools, but it's all registered with the sec and yeah, there's a million rules you have to follow.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. You don't want to, you want to be wearing an orange jumpsuit.

Dan Deppen:

No, that would be bad. No, that's why, that's the other reason why the PPM is nice because the rules are fairly Black and white and you know, they also do like checks on people too, you know, you can't be a bad actor and went up and, you know, things like that. So they're, they're pretty good. But still just kind of getting my feet wet

Justin Bogard:

in that world. So what's the name of your fund called again?

Dan Deppen:

So it's called the fusion income fund. Okay. And where do people go to get now after this? I can get an information on that.

Justin Bogard:

Okay. Are we allowed to, uh, send them to a website for you?

Dan Deppen:

Yes. If you just go to a fusionnotes.com there's a, there's a click at the top, uh, for the note fund. Okay. You click on that, then it's got instructions to either set up a call for me, uh, or get ahold of some of the offering documents, things like that. So if you just got a fusionnotes.com and then look for the fund link, that's the easiest way to go.

Justin Bogard:

Awesome. So the idea for a fund is to invest money in something that's very passive. You're not active at all and someone else's working the money for you and you're getting a return. Simple as that, right?

Dan Deppen:

Yup, absolutely.

Justin Bogard:

Yep. Yeah. So if, if, if it's all kinds of people. So, um, we wanted to talk a little about REOs. So why don't you just tell us exactly what an REO is and then just give us kind of one, one example if you haven't REO. Um,

Dan Deppen:

sure. So I mean, REO stands for real estate owned, which I never quite understood where that,

Justin Bogard:

I don't know. I don't know why it says that either. I can say bank owned, you know?

Dan Deppen:

Yeah. Guess cause that's basically what it is supposed to be is bank owned real estate. So if a bank takes a property back through foreclosure, um, or or through a short sale or something like that. Um, but it's basically where there was a loan on it that went belly up and now the bank owns it. And as a note investor, really, even as a non-performing note investor, like I mentioned, it's something I kind of try to, we'll go wait. But it's sort of an inevitable part of the game. Even if you're buying, just performing, you're eventually going to have one that that goes sideways. Now in your doing your due diligence up front and buying the notes, right. One is that people who are new to notes don't realize or don't maybe don't necessarily like is you can't go inside the property. Right. Knock it out and inspect it. Right. So it's not like when you're buying a home outright, when you're buying the note. Mmm. You'll always have people go outside and take pictures and look at the outside and you'll kind of extrapolate what goes on in the inside. But that's really kind of an X factor. Um, and I've been surprised by a few. I actually had two relatively recently where, um, you know, the outside look pretty good and inside was a big mess. What I've kind of found is, you know, borrowers who either just kind of ride the ship down in a foreclosure or they say, Hey, I am just willing to sign off on a Deed get me outta here. They usually live pretty rough and even when they're willing to sign off and leave, sometimes it's because, you know, they've just run the place down and even they can't stay there anymore. So it's like one story. Actually I was in Indiana and Muncie in your neck of the woods recently. I'm actually got two stories for Muncie, but I'll, I'll tell them more. The more recent ones. So the outside looked pretty good. I was actually by there, um, last fall and we went through the foreclosure process. We actually got all the way through and this was a borrower that hadn't made a payment in like a couple of years, you know, so this is one of these loans, I don't buy as much. We kind of know it's heading to foreclosure. I had never been able to make contact with the borrower through the process to try and work something out. And so we got through the foreclosure and then I was assuming the next step was going to be to process the eviction. Cause I'm like, this guy hasn't left in a couple years and he's never come online and he's going to have to be, you know, drug out by the bailiff. Yeah. Or something. And then all of a sudden he called me like last, I think this was, I think it was around October, November. It's like last fall he calls me and says, Hey, just want let you know I'm moving out this weekend. Heck of a nice guy. And like a nice conversation. And then he goes, Oh yeah, you know, couldn't really afford the house, but the wife loved it, yada, yada, yada. I liked the neighborhood and I'm like, this guy hasn't made a payment in three years. Like what's he talking about? Okay great. I don't have to do the eviction. And now he's out. Um, but when we got in there, found it, they had all these dogs and the dogs had pooped everywhere. And I, I didn't go in the house after we got it back. But the realtor and my property manager in muncie, he said the place just reeked of dog do like bad. And they had even like torn up the flooring. They had torn holes in drywall and you know, so a lot of times when people talk about foreclosures, they worry about the borrower, like no maliciously damaging something on the way out. Sometimes these people just live rough lifestyles. Yeah. So what ended up having to do is, you know, we got it cleaned out, had to clean up. That's where I learned all about mitigating odors. We had the flooring stripped out. There was, I forget what it's called now, but a special paint that we had to paint everything with that kills odors. And then the other big thing is getting the ducts cleaned. I had to pay a couple hundred dollars in it. They said that the ducts were just full dog hair and they found out they pulled like five dog toys out of the ducks. Um, but we actually got the smell killed and there was other rehab work that was needed. Yeah. Um, but when I do these generally, you know, I'm trying not to end up with REO in the first place. Right. So if I do, I'm usually just trying to sell it as quick as I can, you know, to a local fix and flipper or whomever. But because I had this, Oh, I know how odors are. I don't want anybody to smell. I'm like, I need to kill the odors before I put this on the market. So I did kind of a minimal rehab. We did get the odors killed. Um, and now I've got it under contract to sell. That's actually close. Might even close this week or next week for sure. Um, but the other thing that was interesting, I found that was disappointing was the furnace didn't work. There was a cracked heat exchanger. Oh and I don't know this, but when I talked to the borrower when you called me in the fall, he had mentioned, I was like, Oh yeah, the furnace works, but it's not quite keeping up. He mentioned something about the furnace and I think what happened was the furnace died and it was starting to get cold and that's when he left with, was it the fall when it started to get right around the time he left was when it started to get cold. So that's another thing I've seen before too, is sometimes if a borrower is all of a sudden really just ready to sign off and leave, there could be something up like the furnace goes up cold or there's an issue with the roof. So cause when I first started doing this, my initial reaction was, you know, jump for joy when a borrower was willing to sign off. But these days I'm a little more leery. It's like, okay, what's up? Why all of a sudden are you ready to leave? So

Justin Bogard:

I just don't like the color of the house anymore. I just, you know,

Dan Deppen:

yeah. Well the guys conversation was funny how he talked about how his wife loved it and they couldn't quite afford it. It's like, well you didn't pay anything in three years. What do you mean you couldn't quite afford it? So,

Justin Bogard:

well Dan, we are out of a time, my friend, I wish we had more time cause I wanted to hear some of the more of these stories. But uh, I know you wanted to mention something about you have a due diligence, uh, system that you put in place for people because obviously Dan is a very analytic person and he knows his due diligence for notes. Uh, so can you quickly tell us where to find that information?

Dan Deppen:

Yeah, so it's an online training course that will take you through the whole due diligence process for first position residential notes, either systematic due diligence.com or if you go to the fusion notes website, there's a link to it there on well but, but I've got like six or seven hours of videos going through all the elaborate details of my process. And then you can out down also download all my spreadsheets and some of the automation tools that I've built to speed up the due diligence process as well.

Justin Bogard:

That's awesome. Thanks for doing all that effort for that due diligence course and uh, we really appreciate you being on the podcast. We'd love to have you on again in the future if, if that, uh,

Dan Deppen:

yeah, anytime. No, always happy to do this. So no, thank you guys for having me on. Really appreciate it.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah, you're very welcome my friend. So this was a episode five with Dan Deppin and people can get ahold of you. It's a, your email dan@fusionnotes.com. Is that correct? Yup, that's right. Awesome. And check out his website. He's got a due diligence course and he's got a note fund. He's got information about that on his website. So Dan, thanks for being on my friend and a Super E. Until next time, look forward to episode six. I don't know what we're going to do, but something interesting, I'm sure. All right everybody have a good one. See ya. Thank you. 2 Wealth show is produced by Justin Bogard and super E sponsored by BrightPath notes and Elizabeth Maora. Thanks for listening and watching our show.