Be The Bank

017 - Stories Tell All

August 24, 2022 Justin Bogard Season 4 Episode 17
Be The Bank
017 - Stories Tell All
Show Notes Transcript

Be The Bank S4 Ep17 - Stories Tell All

On episode 17 of season 4, Justin Bogard and Richard Thornton breakdown opportunities missed by investors!

Key Takeaways:

  1. Analytics of a deal
  2. Character and other attributes of a note make a difference
  3. Gut Check

Resources and links discussed

About the Host

Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!

Connect with the Host:

Narrorator:

Interested in real estate. How about wealth? Well, they go hand in hand and here you'll learn all about it, about it. Welcome to be the bank, a podcast where we discuss and debate the topics centered around real estate. Investing your host, Justin Bogar shares insights into investing in real estate to create real wealth and passive income for you and your family. He'll share stories of real estate investments done, right? Walk you through the process of owning a real estate note. And most importantly, educate you so you can be the bank, the bank. This is be the bank brought to you by bright path notes. Now here's your host, Justin. Bogar

Justin Bogard:

Welcome back. This is episode number 17 of the beta bank podcast. I'm your host, Justin Bogar. And today I get my buddy Richard Thornton. That's gonna be on. And Richard and I are gonna talk about analytics, excuse me, versus gut feel and how opportunities are missed very easily by investors. Uh, when they look at a deal and they see certain things that are in their filter and it, and it pushes them the wrong way to not maybe dive deeper into it or actually pull the trigger and purchase the assets. So we're gonna get into some of those topics today. Look forward to having you join us. And this episode's brought to you by bright path notes, Richard, Hey bud. Welcome back to the show.

Richard Thornton:

Thank you, sir.

Justin Bogard:

And you are wearing a, looks like appears to be some sort of flannel button up flannel that a long sleeve.

Richard Thornton:

No, actually, uh, the cool K U H L uh, company that makes a lot of sportswear mix this stuff, and it's just a very thin sort of nylon it's good to wear and warmer weather. So we're like you, we're a little bit warmer these days.

Justin Bogard:

Okay. Well, that's good. Have you been doing wise? Like I see you got different colored glasses on today, different

Richard Thornton:

Specs now, uh, decided to mix it up just a little bit. So

Justin Bogard:

<laugh>, well, I appreciate you being on the, on the, um, podcast again, it's been a few episodes since you've been on, I I've had to fly solo because you've been on vacation mode for a while.

Richard Thornton:

I know I went to, you know, land's unknown. How about that?

Justin Bogard:

<laugh> land's unknown. Where was that at

Richard Thornton:

The moon now?<laugh> we just went to New York and, and, uh, played around New York city. We love, we love playing in New York city, so

Justin Bogard:

Okay. Playing sports in New York city,

Richard Thornton:

No, just, you know, going to museums and, and my significant others from there. So we knew a lots of little haunts, like Zbars and different places like that. So it's a lot of fun.

Justin Bogard:

Right? Cool. For those of you that are just listening on this podcast, you can also watch the video feed of this podcast on the bright path notes of YouTube channel, and you can go there and you can see the video along with all the other podcast videos that we've done as well for all the seasons. This is episode number 17 of season number four, Richard today, opening package, I talked about analytics versus gut feel is kind of how I describe it. I've had some, uh, investors in the past and some recent investors look at some of the deals that maybe I would present to them and show them like, Hey, these are, these are pretty good deals. And I think you should take a look at it and possibly, you know, get this in your portfolio. And the pushback I get Richard is that they see something about the deal that really turns them off. Whether it's maybe the collateral looks kind of run down or broken down, or, you know, the, the numbers kind of don't make sense as far as maybe it's a lower monthly payment versus a higher monthly payment or the balance is too low. So I, I, what I'm getting at Richard is that I perceive that investors are putting their filters on too tight to where maybe they're just solely focused on analytics of the deal only as opposed to looking at all the other attributes of the deal that make it, they can make it a pretty sweet deal. Cause I know you and I have a similar way that we look at deals and we, we pretty much come to the same conclusion that we either like it, or we don't, there's rarely times that we're on both sides on different sides of the fence.

Richard Thornton:

Right. So, um, I, as you know, I came from a, uh, commercial lending background. Yeah. Um, before I got into this aspect of notes and when, uh, somebody buddy first, uh, introduced the idea of emotional equity to me, I said, right.<laugh>

Justin Bogard:

You know, that's no such thing. You just make that up. Didn't you

Richard Thornton:

On the commercial side. Um, there was about, uh, you know, negative 0.1, emotional equity. If a building wasn't working, you let it go. And you said, bye. Yeah. Um, go ahead. No concept, but obviously that makes a big difference to what we're doing here.

Justin Bogard:

It does. So Richard, I I've had some time to think about this topic this week, cuz this is something that I've been meaning to kind of speak about and debate on. And what I've been doing lately is I've actually been watching a lot more baseball this year. Okay. So I'm having some baseball analogies come to mind. When I, when I look at this, this topic that I wanna talk about today. And so when you manage a baseball team or you're a baseball owner, it's very easy. Like, um, there's a movie that came out called Moneyball to where you kind of look at the analytics of it. You say what I need to do to win. I need to score runs in order to score runs. I have to get guys on base in order to get guys on base, they have to have an on base percentage of X amount. And if I, if I yield those results, it will get me the runs that I want based on, you know, the, the, the walls of, of running numbers. Right. Right. And the baseball season is a 180 some games long. Um, and it's a season that's about six months long, right. If you make it to the both season. Right. So when a baseball manager looks at a player, you know, they can often look at the analytics of the player, but what's, what's often overlooked. And I think some professional managers do this as well. Is the character of that player, the character of the player, meaning do they work well with others, right? Mm-hmm<affirmative> will they follow this system that is geared towards that specific professional team? Will they work hard? Is their work ethic involved or they just have natural role talent. And they're really lazy. Like, I'm sure there's a lot of players out there working. I name anybody on the show by any means, but those, those are, those are the things that, uh, really good baseball teams taking consideration because oftentimes you're here announcers, I'm sorry, not announcers analysts, come on a TV show, a radio show and say, I don't know why they drafted that guy. I don't know why they didn't draft this guy because this is, this guy produces, you know, a hundred RBIS a year and you know, or they throw, you know, a hundred miles an hour, you know, slider or whatever. But then what they don't know is all, all the attributes that they looked into, that specific player and like the things they talked about, like, what is their character? Will they fit in our system? What are we trying to do as an organization? Our goal is to obviously to win a world series, but maybe they're trying to build a legacy world series where they might be a dynasty team, like maybe the New York Yankees when they were, you know, right. When they had all those, all those runs in a row, um, all, all those world series championships in a row. And so, so what I'm getting at my long winded analogy here, Richard, is that I see that, that mentality of going after a player that fits your system, the same thing I go about looking a note. And so what I mean by that is my system is the portfolio. Okay. So I have a goal within the portfolio. Obviously I wanna make as much money as I can. Right. Duh. Then I also wanna have the lowest risk that I can, duh. Right? Those are the two main things that everybody wishes for, but sometimes you just can't get that. So sometimes I look at a deal and I see a lot of nice things about it, but then I see that the deal can be kinda rough. And what I mean is that I might see a deal that has a good piece of collateral. I might see a deal that has, um, you know, a nice payment stream that comes in and it looks like it's a pretty hefty discount to where I can make a good return, but there might be a reason Richard, why that return will be a lot higher than what I normally see. And that reason might be maybe the borrower is a rolling 60 day payer or a 90 day payer. Maybe they skip a couple payments and get caught back up. And those are, are those things that are gonna challenge you to, to want to get that deal or not kind of depends on the investor. Right. But those are things that, that I look at as well to be like, would I turn myself away from that deal? Or would I turn myself onto that deal to take some, take a flyer on it, if you will, is what, you know, um, the term I use often. So Richard, when I see some newer investors, this happens more with newer investors because they haven't had had their filter kind of, kind of exposed to where they, it fits their box and they will look at the numbers and be like, well, they'll be yield focused first. Right. Would you agree with me on that?

Richard Thornton:

Yes mm-hmm

Justin Bogard:

<affirmative> so they have a number in mind of the return they want to get. And sometimes the return is quite astronomical compared to what reality is. And compared to how much work they're gonna put into the deal to make that much money, meaning they're gonna be extremely passive and one super high return, like let's say a 15% return versus, you know, being very active and being like, okay, I think I can get a 12% return because maybe I'm buying an non-performer and I can get it reperforming. So Richard, I see those newer investors get those filters too tight and missed opportunities. And so I hope that analogy kind of brought into the picture of why I wanna talk about this today. And I kinda wanna get your thoughts on that.

Richard Thornton:

Yeah. So you've heard me use the analogy, uh, before of Ebola jello, which in my commercial lending background. Yeah. Uh, you had certain characteristics, um, if you did this to a deal that would happen, it was very, very linear. If you have a bowl of jello in front of you and you push on one side with your finger, just a little bit, it may bulge to the right, or it may bulge to the left or maybe your finger's just gonna sink into it. Nothing's gonna happen at all.

Justin Bogard:

I feel got cool.

Richard Thornton:

And that's a little bit of what goes on with, uh, private note investing. And it took me a while to adjust to that, to think, oh gee, uh, this could work. Let's, let's take an example. Okay. Okay. You, look, you look at somebody, um, who is, um, a chronically late payer. I have a client or borrower, I'm sorry, who pays? Um, 15 days late every, every, every month I've explained to him. And I said, if you just pay within the first five days, you know, save up just a little bit of money, pay the first five days, get a you'll won't, uh, incur all these late fees. He says, I know, but you know, he won't, he won't do it. He always pays late. The other thing he, he does is quite off is he pays inconsistently well on a long term basis. Do I care? Um, since I'm a long term investor, no. If I was trying to get into this deal and you have a quick turnaround and get my money back out in a year, yes, I would care. But since I'm looking at five years or more, I don't care. So what am I getting? I, I bought the deal at a much lower, uh, cost and I'm getting late fees. So the totality is I'm getting a much higher return at the end of the day.

Justin Bogard:

That's a good example of a deal that people would shy away from. Right? Cause maybe they look at that pay history and they'd be like, well, this guy pays late. And he's his, his, uh, his frequency of the payment that come in is erratic to where the amount of money that he pays is kind of erratic. He, or she could forward.

Richard Thornton:

So that I, I actually had sold a partial on that deal to a, to a borrower, uh, investor. And she couldn't take it. She said, I, I can't deal with this. And I said, but you're making more money. She said, I can't deal with it. So I bought the deal back and I've got it in my portfolio and I'm very happy. Thank you. You know,<laugh>

Justin Bogard:

So it's kind of a double edge sword where really the investor needs to be happy overall because it's their money and it's, it's their investment. Um, but if you're looking at the opportunity to where you're trying to weigh risk and try to weigh return, and you're trying to make sure those are maximized, meaning you're trying to get the lowest risk with the highest return and you can handle some of that stuff or you can fix it. It's like, it's like your team. Will they fit in your team? Well, yeah, I, I can handle this, this guy because I can, I can turn his work ethic around. Right. I can, I can get him to understand about, you know, you know, trying to be a better ball player if you will. And

Richard Thornton:

So exactly. And the other aspect I think you always have to look at is, is, is how you can structure the deal on your side. It's one way, one thing to look at the borrower and him or herself and how they pay and things like that. It's another thing to say, all right, what could we creatively do on our side? So, um, maybe you or I look at it, um, and we sell a, maybe we've got a deal that we're making 10% on. I'm just pulling that out of the outta the, okay. Okay. Um, but we sell a partial on it for three years. So we've actually given up those payments or a portion of those payments or a hypothecation for those three years. And then when we look at the overall term, even though he's kind of seesawing back and forth on his, he being the, the borrower on his payments, we end up with like a 15 or 17% return because we offset our money outlay, uh, up front. So there's a lot that we can do on our side also.

Justin Bogard:

So I, something that comes to mind while, while you were talking, Richard was one thing that is analytic heavy is the computer or the, the crunching of the number valuations, as far as what AI do. We'll just say AI like a, like a Zillow, AI or mm-hmm<affirmative> or whatever. So they, they take data, they aggregate data across an area to come up with some sort of value of what that property is, right? They say this home was sold recently for this price hit square footage was this, this home was sold. This prices, square footage was this, it had this many bedrooms that one had this many bedrooms. Okay. Let's figure out what that square foot's gonna be. And then boom, we're gonna have a price not taking into consideration. Like, is the landscaping need a lot of repairs? Is there foundation problems, right? That's why those online tools can be good to get you like a baseline, but they're never something you should go off to be complete accuracy, right? Because you don't know what's inside the house and you don't know what the house shape condition is in. So it can be perceived as, Hey, that house is worth$200,000 when, eh, it's really only worth 125 because that needs a ton of work because of X, Y, Z.

Richard Thornton:

Right. And not only that in the, the bracket that we're in. So just for the audience ed edification, we're in the lower end of the market, you can be in the, uh, a hundred thousand, 200,000, 300,000 million dollar category and do private money mortgages. Um, I see out here in California, private money mortgages that are given to people who are making a half million dollars a year. Why do they need that? Because they're not a, a, an American national they're from India. They're a tech worker. They're, you know, from, from wherever. So they can't qualify. Yeah. But the margins in those are so small, we choose to be in the smaller end of the market, the 60 to 70, uh, thousand dollars market. So in that market, you've got a lot older, uh, housing product. Yes. Which means that you have a lot of inconsistency because things just weren't built on a production basis. Like they are today. We've got 20 houses that are all very comparable. So that in itself, you know, a three bedroom is not a three bedroom is not a three bedroom. Right. They can be totally different.

Justin Bogard:

Right. Those are great points. You brought Richard, I'm glad you, you brought that up about the, you know, the housing as you're right. It's it's, the homes are older, right? The borrowers are a little bit different as far as they're their amount of income coming in as significantly, less than what you're probably dealing with without California. So they have different priorities, right? The mortgage payment is typically their priority. Some, but sometimes they have to, you know, they have to do certain things to, uh, one month because it's gonna be, they're gonna be running thin one month. And so when we see that pay history, we kind of notice those trends in those changes, in that pay history. If it's a, or if it's a problem being erratic, there's sometimes when you and I both agree, like, yeah, this, this payment history, there's something, there's something going on there. Our radar goes off because we're seeing a trend or we're seeing some sort of anomalies in there that are going, okay, something something's weird's going on because, or something normal's going on in their life where every July, they just have a trouble making that payment on time. Or maybe it's it's a little bit later, but they get caught back up. So it's like, as long as I know, every time July comes around, I'm gonna expect a little bump, but they're gonna get caught back up because the history showed me otherwise. So that little bump may turn off some people. So I guess what I'm saying, Richard here today, and I know we're both in agreement on this is that you can't overlook a deal because of maybe one thing that is looking bad to, you need to understand the story about it, because what our mentor always says, you know, uh, stories sell and spreadsheets fail, right? Because if you put a spreadsheet in front of somebody, you know, the, the eyes just gloss over and like, oh, I don't care. We tell'em a story about,'em be like, oh, wow. So, so when we buy a deal, when we put it in front of investor, we're kind of explaining, like, don't just look at the numbers. Let me tell you why we bought it. And let me tell you why we see this as a great opportunity, because we bought it for our portfolio with intention of keeping it. But we're happy to sell it as well, because you don't know about this borrow, like they, they are, you know, maybe coming into some money or something, or maybe they have, uh, a second job that they're getting, or maybe they're getting married, they're combining incomes with somebody, or maybe, um, they happen to be on an area where the appreciation is going through the roof. And it's like, the risk comes lower to us as investing that loan, or, you know, it, there could be a lot of different reasons why, but basically this listening to the story, understanding how they got in this deal, understanding why they paid this deal and looking at it. So I've seen deals to where I've turned them away because, um, the down payment was so small and I didn't really see the borrower's ability to repay this debt. So I saw some risk there and I've seen some deals to where the payment down payment, the beginning was huge, like, you know, 30, 40, 50%. And then it only, it only had like one payment seasoning and, and take and take the risk on that as well. Because I did see that as not being risk, because if they've paying 50% down on a house, the, the deal that comes to mind is it was a house that sold for a hundred thousand dollars and the borrower put$50,000 down cash.

Richard Thornton:

Right.

Justin Bogard:

I bought it with one payment, right. One payment seasoning. Right. Don't do I have to look at the credit? No.

Richard Thornton:

Right.

Justin Bogard:

I mean, I can, but do I have to, no, the risk is so low in that deal that, you know, I'm willing to buy it with one payment because I don't have to see a lot of other things cuz that just took care of a lot of worry about me. And I know that if I get it back, yeah. I won't make a ton of money on it, but at least I know that that borrower just put$50,000 of their hard earned money into a property and the Indianapolis area. That's a huge thing for somebody to put down$50,000 cash. Not a lot of people want to give up that much equity if they put it down on property.

Richard Thornton:

Right. So, so you just, um, by that one point, um, actually made three points as to why you would do that deal. One, one point is, um, they put a lot of equity into it. So it's actually skin in the game. Yeah. The second point is they put a lot of money into it, which means that you are buying that your investment to value is much lower. Yes. The third reason is, is in Indianapolis, it's your backyard, you know, the deal, you know, the area, you know, what things are reselling for which we can't discount, um, location. Yes. Uh, a location that, you know, doesn't have to be one you're living in, but if you know a market and you say, look, I can turn that house in 60 days or 120 days, or you really know, you know, you've got somebody in your back pocket that, that can help you in that area makes all the difference in the world.

Justin Bogard:

Thanks for bringing up location. Because I didn't, I didn't consider that to be a topic as a part of this, but you're exactly right. We, we do have investors that say our filter says we have to be in a city that has at least 50,000 in population or we won't do it.

Richard Thornton:

Yeah. So this is not one of the better criteria, but it always makes me smile when I, yeah. When I relate to this story is yes, you would think that some people would say, um, because of the analytics, I want this one of my clients, um, who lives in large Southern metropolitan area and has bought probably at least a half dozen notes from me once houses that are sort of in the countryside around, uh, his large city. So that once every month or two months, uh, he and his wife can hop in the car and go visit their houses and make sure that they're still there and have lunch. And that's their idea of a fun Saturday. Um, you know, that's not much of a criteria, but<laugh>, but it's, you know,

Justin Bogard:

So as, as a fund manager, when you have seven figure money that you're managing and you, and you happen to be buying notes with them, that makes sense to have criteria is like that, that are kind of tight because you're playing a numbers game overall. But when you're not buying at that level, when you're buying at a smaller level, you really need to look at the story of the deal. So I, I particularly don't end up having a lot of loans that are in very populated cities, meaning like, we'll just say 20,000 or more, right. Typically I'm, I'm finding deals that are the population's lower, but I find out Richard that even if I have to turn the property over, it's not that big a deal as far as finding a buyer for it. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And I also find that I don't have to turn them over very often because they just, they just pay like clockwork. Um, there, there are anomalies and they are things that happen to where, you know, they stopped paying and stuff, but it's not that often. And so I end up seeing a lot more of those deals to put in front of people, but that is another turnoff for investors is the location. If it's not in a big city, they think that if I had this over, I'm not gonna be able to sell it's around.

Richard Thornton:

Right. So on a, um, you could say, uh, or one could look at a deal and somebody could say, well, how, how do they make their payment? And you'd look at that person. And like, they were, you know, crazy and you'd say, well, what do I care? How they make their payment? Well, you and I both know that it makes a huge difference for us. If somebody makes, um, a direct deposit ACH or they're paying through Moneygrams or they're paying on credit cards or they're paying cash, you know, and just how regular is that? I mean, you and I will both take, um, a, a autopay ACH deal any day of the week. Um, now that, that says a whole lot there about the quality of the borrower, their intent to pay their ability to pay and everything else.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. Cause they have a lot of confidence that, that money's gonna be debited outta their accounting on the same day of the month, every single month, they know they have the confidence that the money's gonna be in there.

Richard Thornton:

Right. And they don't necessarily, you know, I've got one guy who, um, uh, makes, uh,$2,200 a month, that's it? Um, that's not a lot of money it's you certainly could live that in California. And a lot of, lot of other places, but he lives in Missouri. He's got a$400 a month, you know, plus or minus, um, mortgage payment. Um, sorry about that. Um,

Justin Bogard:

Unprofessional, have you

Richard Thornton:

Richard, how UN

Justin Bogard:

That phone before we start recording

Richard Thornton:

That's right. That's right. Um, anyway, uh, he used to work for the post office and he's on a pension, so he gets a regular payment and, um, he doesn't have a problem with, um, mainten his payment so he can pay through an ACH, even though he doesn't make a lot proportionately to what he, what his income is. He's fine.

Justin Bogard:

Sorry, Richard, you, you kind of froze up with me for a minute, but I think, I think I got the gist of what you were saying. I, I heard, heard the end.

Richard Thornton:

Yeah. I was saying that he was fine proportionate to what his income was. His payment was fine and it was consistent because it was an ACH.

Justin Bogard:

Perfect. So Richard, I'm gonna, I'm gonna end this topic on this note is, um, I get into a deal sometimes and maybe it falls into what I like or what I don't like about it, but then I also do a gut check, right? Mm-hmm<affirmative> a gut feeling of the deal. Like, uh, we, we talked about before about how we can look at a pay history and we can really tell if something is trending off or something just feels off about this deal. Same thing about the other attributes with the deal, the collateral, the, the down payment, you know, the type of instruments on like you, your radar sometimes goes up, you're like this, this, something seems weird about this. And you either choose to investigate further or you choose to kind of pass on it. So fortunately for us, we see a lot more deals than the, than the average small time investor probably does for notes. So we can, we can pass on deals because we know we have more in the pipeline that are coming through that we can kind of sift through and be a little bit more, little bit more, um, specific about what we wanna get. But in, in general, if something feels off, we typically are like, well, if the, if the price is right, yeah, we'll, we'll take it. But if we can't get the price that we want, we mitigate that risk off the GetGo saying, okay, yeah, this guy is gonna sell it for this price. Yeah. We'll, we'll take it off his hands, but we can't buy it for the normal price point that we would go after.

Richard Thornton:

Right. So let's, let's take a gut check one, uh, for example, that we're both working on right now. Right? So as you well know, we have this, um, uh, borrower who has been a, a terrible payer to her sister. And, um, in talking with, uh, both the borrower and her sister, um, the sister wants to sell the note just because she she's tired of dealing with her, her other sister, well, turns out, you know, there's a family squabble that sister doesn't want to make her payments regularly. She's basically jerking her sister around making her, um, very, um, uh, uncomfortable by playing all these games. She's told us, and she's already demonstrated to us that she's gonna be just fine paying us, but the sister she wanted to make as uncomfortable as we possibly could. So, you know, that's a gut check. You have to, as you were talking, as I was talking to both them, we sort of thought, Hmm, this, this might work. And, and you have to figure that kind of stuff out.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. You get, get a way into the factors of why are they not doing something? And we, we found the reason, right? We, we could discover it. Like most people would probably wanna stay away from a, let's just say a family domestic squabble, right. Because they just don't wanna get involved in the days of our life saga of something like that going on.

Richard Thornton:

Right. But

Justin Bogard:

What we found out is that, you know, what the deal, that we're what we're paying for for this deal versus what we have to do to get this borrower, to write the ship. We see that they really do have some emotional equity into this property for whatever reason. Right. And so I don't think they really wanna lose it. So it was just one of those deals where we said, you know what? This is a good opportunity. If we are wrong, guess what? Then we'll get the property back. And we already have ways that we know that we're gonna make money on it. And so it was kinda a win-win for us regardless, but we wanted make sure that borrower was able to, to get what they wanted outta the deal, which was to keep that property and to start hanging off.

Richard Thornton:

Right. So by that same token though, I looked at one, uh, exclusive of, of you, my efforts, and the woman was somewhat erratic payer. She made her payments at the end of the month or of the end of the year for the most part. But you're talking with her and you find out she's had five husbands and you maybe not,

Justin Bogard:

There are some funny stories out there. Isn't there urgent.

Richard Thornton:

Yeah.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. We got, we got more stories than we have time to talk about. We can go on for days with all the stories, even the current deals that we have going on right now. It's just, it's just a lot of fun. This is why we like the seller finance business. And this is why we, we know that we can find good deals and make great money with it. So Richard, we're about out of time for today. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Episode number 17, brought to you by right. Path notes. And, uh, hopefully you'll be on the next episode with us Richards

Richard Thornton:

Hopefully. And you know, maybe I'll wear a different shirt.

Justin Bogard:

Maybe, maybe different color glasses. Change it up. That's

Richard Thornton:

Right. That's right. Change it up. Okay. All right.

Justin Bogard:

Okay. Bye brother. I'll talk to you later, man. See you all.

Narrorator:

Thanks for listening to be the bank. We hope you learned something from today's show. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us. Plus check out our bright path notes channel on YouTube and follow us on Facebook and Twitter at be the bank and on Instagram at be the bank podcast. Be the bank is sponsored by bright path notes. Thanks again for listening.