Be The Bank

006 - Never Too Late to Start Investing

March 23, 2022 Justin Bogard Season 4 Episode 6
Be The Bank
006 - Never Too Late to Start Investing
Show Notes Transcript

Be The Bank S4 Ep6 - Never Too Late to Start Investing

On episode 6 of season 4,  Justin Bogard interviews Jay Redding.

 Key Takeaways:  

  1. Rental Portfolio v Note Portfolio
  2. Reading the Rules; Understanding How to Play the Game
  3. Communication and Flexibility

 Resources and links discussed  

 About the Host

 Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!  

  Connect with the Host: 

Justin Bogard:

Interested in real estate. How about wealth? Well, they go hand in hand and here you'll learn all about it, about it. Welcome to be the bank, a podcast where we discuss and debate the topics centered around real estate. Investing your host, Justin Bogard shares insights into investing in real estate to create real wealth and path asset income for you and your family. He'll share stories of real estate investments done, right? Walk you through the process of owning a real estate note , and most importantly, educate you so you can be the b ank. This is be the bank brought to you by bright path notes. Now here's your host, J ustin Bogard. All right . Welcome to another episode, episode, number six of the Be the bank podcast. I'm gonna host Justin Bogard and today we're gonna be talking and discussing with my friend, Jay Redding about a rental portfolio and a note portfolio and the differences of them. And what's kind of what kind of better and what is not better, and what situations may arise that are, that can be interesting about these two. So that's the main topic of discussion today. And if you stay tuned, you'll hear some more. This episode is brought to you by bright path notes, Mr . Jay Redding , how are you, man?

Jay Redding:

Hey, I'm doing great, Justin. Good to be with you today.

Justin Bogard:

It's great having you on today as well. And , uh, I've known you for a couple years now and you are definitely in the no investing community and you're kind of local to me. So you actually live in the Fort Wayne area of Indiana, which for those of you that are listening as kind of north and east part of the state, and I'm kind of in the middle of the state.

Jay Redding:

That is correct.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. So we're just a few hours apart, man.

Jay Redding:

Only about, about two at the most,

Justin Bogard:

But yet we only see each other at like major conventions.

Jay Redding:

That is true. We need to change that. Don't we ?

Justin Bogard:

Yeah, we do. We do . So . So Jay , the listener here doesn't have a lot of familiarity with you. So I'd like to give you a chance to kind of walk through a little bit of your story with real estate and kind of where you started, what you did when you started and kind of bring you to today.

Jay Redding:

Sure. Be happy to , um, I did my first deal in 2004. Uh, I was working for a pharmaceutical , uh, company at that period in time and I was about about eight years away from early retirement. So I mean, I , I look at all you young guys out here now I got a pretty late start. So for all of you that are a little bit older down the road, there's hope for you. Okay . I just want you to know

Justin Bogard:

It's not too late.

Jay Redding:

It's not too late. That's exactly right. Um , but uh , I got caught in a downsizing in the pharmaceutical , uh , and let's see, did my first deal 2004 went full time in 2007 . That's what I did . And , uh , when I went time , we only had probably nine properties at that time, as far as rentals were concerned. Um , and my wife and I, we basically sat down and she's a , uh , was an elementary school teacher. She's now retired, but she was elementary teacher at that time. And , um , we made the decision to go for, and , uh, we lived all of her income and built our portfolio out and used private money to be able to do that because I technically was not bankable. Cause I didn't have a W2 job at that point in time, I had only one choice. It was, I had to buy , find private money, which is what we did. And we built our , uh, portfolio up. Uh, we, we were up as high as , uh , 50 rentals. We're at 40 rentals total of 48 doors right now. Um, we typically do about three to five retail flips a year. We buy tax lean and then we're building out a portfolio of the notes right now. And we're probably scaling back more on the tax lie and only doing the flips when it really makes sense. I mean, I , I had someone tease me, you know, you just you're , you're not gonna get outta bed unless you're gonna make at least 20% or plus. And I said, that's about right. I'm not so

Justin Bogard:

Right. You probably, you probably licked your wounds long enough with some, with some deals that you're just like, yeah, it's, it's gotta be some juice in there for a minute . There's

Jay Redding:

Gotta be a lot of juice in there for me to be able to go and do a flip now, but we got one going right now, which should be a really good one. So good .

Justin Bogard:

So the real property, part of your portfolio, the rentals and the flips and the taxing and stuff, that part, is it just locally, like in the Fort Wayne area of Indiana?

Jay Redding:

Good question. Yes. Uh, all of our rental properties are , uh , right around Fort Wayne. Well within the city of Fort Wayne specifically designed that way. Yeah . Uh , we have all of our, we have all of our crews here. Um, it just makes it very, very simple, literally there all within about 30 minutes of our office and nice . We , it was designed specifically that way.

Justin Bogard:

Nice. So then you probably have your own property man management , uh , company as well.

Jay Redding:

Yes we do, but we only manage our own properties. Okay . Uh , we don't manage anybody else's uh , heavens no , I would never want

Justin Bogard:

With 40 . Hey , that that's a good handful there.

Jay Redding:

That's correct. And , and Kyle came on board a few. My son-in-law Kyle came on board a few years ago and that is what he is pretty much running as the property management, and also helps with the flips and doing our notes as well. Um, but that's his primary responsibility in making sure all the books on the back end are are right and all that.

Justin Bogard:

Okay , great. So let's take it to some notes, so sure . Do you have , uh , a note portfolio as well as rental portfolio? That

Jay Redding:

Is correct. Yes. My portfolio is nothing like your portfolio though.

Justin Bogard:

Well, I , I dunno about that. I don't , I don't tell anything that I have, so I may not be proud of some of the ones, but I I'm offer of those for sale. Right .

Jay Redding:

Understood.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. So are you into non-performing or performing?

Jay Redding:

Uh, we have done, we have done non-performing we have performing, we've done , uh , partials and hypothe, so we've done all of those.

Justin Bogard:

Okay. So you're pretty well rounded. All right . Yeah. So I'm, I'm setting you up to show that you are,

Speaker 5:

I know you are you're setting

Justin Bogard:

Of the rental side and the note side . So this is an ongoing debate. When you get into real estate and you learn about notes, you have people that love rentals and you have people that love notes. You have people that have done both like yourself and myself as well. Now, granted portfolio disclosure, I've not had a portfolio of 40 rentals, be four , I've had a few rentals and that was enough experience for me to not want to be a landlord anymore. So I wanna get into the discussion of talking about what is it like for being a landlord with a portfolio of 40 plus rentals at your disposal, and then also managing those rentals as well. I'm sure you have some good stories and some bad stories, but let's just talk about what is the logistics of, of running a portfolio of rentals like that.

Jay Redding:

Sure. One of the critical things that you have to have , uh , and learned this very quickly , uh , early on due to some, I'll say some disasters. All right . Yeah . Uh , you get , you get baptized per quick , if you don't. I like that

Justin Bogard:

Worded .

Speaker 5:

Yes. You get baptized pretty

Jay Redding:

Quick. Uh, if you , uh , don't have systems and processes in , and , uh, we took time out in business and developed a , a really, a good system that we had that regardless of who we had , um , managing our properties that they could walk in and pretty much do it. Okay. Because if they're just following what our systems are, our systems and processes have evolved some over the years, but quite honestly, most of our residents now they stay with us five, it really three to 5, 6, 7 years at a time. Uh , all we , we are having, we have one turnover going on right now, which is the first turnover we've had in three years in our entire portfolio.

Justin Bogard:

That's good.

Jay Redding:

It is. All right . Um , so we've got that honed down very well. We know specifically the type of candidate that we're looking for. Okay . And it has, we're worked well now saying that , um, you're gonna have systems and processes in place to handle the maintenance. I mean, you you're , you're going to get those maintenance calls is just part of the business. Yeah. Fortunately, the crews that we have on board , they've been with us for 10 plus years. It is nice that all I gotta do is, or Kyle, either one of us , uh , is make a telephone call and we know it's gonna be taken care of. Or if we're going to have a turnover, we, our team, we can come in and do the scope of work and everyone has their direction. And we just basically have to just check from time to time and see how progress is is going and timing things up. We have , uh , we're about two weeks out from being done with a , uh, with a , uh , turnover that we're doing right now. And we already have our next client ready to move in on , uh , on April one .

Justin Bogard:

So I'll just tell you this , from hearing this story from is the first time I've heard, heard this story from you as far as how, how your portfolio is working with your rentals, but it is working very well for you. Yes,

Jay Redding:

It is .

Justin Bogard:

Um, have you bought a lottery ticket lately?

Jay Redding:

No, I have not. You probably I'll leave that to my wife . I'll leave that to my wife. She's the one that wins that kind . So I never win that kind of stuff

Justin Bogard:

You , you have , in my , my opinion, you have a very lucky portfolio, but I think it's, like you said, it's by design. So you took the proper measures and you wanted to make it a business to have a portfolio of rentals and you have the proper systems and processes in place and it allows you to have success. So having those long term tenants like you do, you said five to seven years, like I've not heard a , of anyone else have that to be a majority of their rental portfolio

Jay Redding:

Like that . Yeah . I mean, we've got some, that's been with us now 10 years and we have done rent increases along the way as well. Yeah . So we've stayed, it's been a little hard keeping up with market rents right now because they've been jumping so fast, but we are , uh, we are increasing every year what's going on in the market and we, we are market competitive in that respect.

Justin Bogard:

OK .

Jay Redding:

I think, I think it really, a lot of it gets back to good communication that we do yeah . With our residents. So they understand where we're coming from. We listen to what they , uh , what they want. We are attentive to what they're , what they're requesting. And at the same time, when there is a maintenance request, we get addressed typically within 24 hours.

Justin Bogard:

Okay. That's great. And just knowing you jay from, you know , offline, outside this podcast, you are, you communicate very well. So that doesn't surprise me that that's one of your, your things that stick out as of how you run that, that management, the rentals.

Jay Redding:

So thank you.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. So, okay. So you have definitely a lot of experience with rentals and you, and you've grossed this , uh , I'll call this , this large portfolio of , uh, for a small business , uh , of notes. I'm sorry. Rentals here. And so you also have dabbled into the note space as well. And so what are some things that you see , um, in the note space that are similar with the rental portfolio, as far as like managing a note portfolio and we'll get into the mechanics of a note portfolio in a minute, but sure. What are some similarities there?

Jay Redding:

Sure. Um, from here's some of the , the similarities that I see, you know, if you're going to do a non per forming type of note, I kind of look at that. It's very similar , similar to a flip. Okay . I , uh , if, if you're gonna get the property back, you're gonna take it through the foreclosure process. You're gonna get a chunk if you've purchased correctly, same thing happens on, on the flip side. If you buy right, you do the rehab, you're gonna get chunk of profit then at the, at the back end . So it's very similar in that respect. Yeah. I, I view the performing notes similar to, from the rental standpoint, with, without the maintenance calls, tenants, toilets, trash, all that kind, this stuff as , um , just consistent ongoing cash flow on a monthly basis. I mean, as you well know , um , Justin, I mean, when you've got good performing notes, all we do pretty much is we check to make sure that the servicing company has , um , that the rents have come in rents that the mortgage payments have and we're done for the month. Yeah . That's it. Um , the servicing company, we view very similar to having a property management company. Okay. They do all the heavy lifting and we don't do that ourselves. We actually hire out the , for the collection of the mortgage payments as , as you do as well. Um , but having a licensed servicers that are servicing the , the , the notes. So it makes our life very, very simp . Simple, to be honest. Um, I can tell you, we could handle, we could handle a hundred notes for the effort that we put into our, our rentals, to be honest.

Justin Bogard:

So that that's, that's a great topic of conversation that we should get into. So what, what is involved with owning that rental portfolio you kind of described, and you described all the , the manpower, if you will. Sure. Of being involved logistically to move things around, to be able to respond, to request or problems, and then being on site and it's physical property. So you have the potential of liability as well. You've got, you know, issues of some way tripping on the sidewalk, suing you. Yep . You've got issues with somebody burning down the house. You've got issues with damage inside the house or, or tenants that would walk out on you and then you'd have to, you have vacancy problems. And so there's a lot of potentials there. You have mitigated a lot of that risk already because of your great communication and your system and processes. So you are far and beyond a lot of , uh , rental portfolio folks that I know which , which is great for you, but you still mentioned, there's still a lot of work involved with that. And there's still a lot of , you gotta keep things moving and , and make sure everything is every , all the machines are oiled up to keep those gears turning.

Jay Redding:

Yeah . I look at it. I , I mean, there's pluses of minuses on the real estate side of the there's pluses and minuses on the note side. Yeah. Pluses pluses on the real estate side is particularly with the inflation that we're going through right now you can adjust rents to help mitigate the, the inflation that's happening, that's taking place, but you're only gonna be able to do that to a certain extent. All right . I mean, if you take, get up too high, your tenants, aren't gonna be able to afford the property. Right. Okay. So then you're gonna force a turnover. And sometimes that has to be done. You have to make a , a judgment call there. Right. Um, you do get the advantage of depreciation, but I would tell you, I mean, I know I've heard a lot of people. Oh, well , I love the depreciation. Well, you and I both know that's a short L that is a short termed benefit because if you ever determine that you're going to sell that rental hate to tell you, but all that depreciation is gonna have to be recaptured. And it's taxed at 25%. Yeah . Us , your capital gains is gonna be taxed at 15 or 20% on top of that. So your tax burden, you know, what, what the tax man giveth , he also takes away right . When you sell. And the only way to get around that is to die. And that's not necessarily an option that I prefer to have right now. I don't want , I don't want that to be enough for you at all. Yeah . So , so that's actually a , a downside. Okay . So I , you know, a lot of the , a lot of people talk about the benefit . Depreciation is short lived . Okay . I'm, I'm in a situation where actually a number of our rentals are paid off. Okay. So the cash flow on them are, is very, very good. All right . All right . But I still have, I I'll call it . We have the monster out here that still has to be fed. And that monster is even if it's paid off, even though I don't have a mortgage, I still have to upgrade the properties to keep competitive, but what's going on to the market and just the normal wear and tear that happens all right . On a property from just people living in . It's not that they're damaging necessary. It's just a normal wear and tear. So you're always gonna have capital improvements. You're always going to have a furnace. That's gonna need to be replaced a roof. That's gonna be replaced. I mean, refrigerators, all of those types of things that have to be replaced, and you have to be putting money back for that a all the time. On the note side , you don't typically have the hassles with the tenants. All right . Cause , and , and if the water heater goes out, you know, there's no bank that gets a call. Hey, my water, hot water heater went out . Yeah . So you don't get those telephone calls. Um, the downside from the notes, it's a little harder be able to compensate from the , uh , inflation aspect. And there's a few strategies that you can use to help mitigate that and how, and , and how you're working with in the notes and being an active investor. But it , it , to me, it really, it really gets back to what you choose is your lifestyle because the cash on both is very similar. All right . At least where I'm at now. Okay . For someone who has a lot of debt yet on their rental side, and they're making 150 , 200 bucks a month , um, you mean , I'm gonna tell you your notes are gonna cash flow a whole lot better than that. Right . Okay . But the notes, our notes, cash flow , as well as our rentals. So in my mind, if I could do it with less hassle and less phone calls and everything in that respect the notes win , I'll just compensate because I'll make the adjustment that I need on the taxes to be able to handle that. So that's, that's kind of my thought,

Justin Bogard:

You great may have some great points there. We , the tax implication and inflation of stuff. And so often I get asked a question about inflation and especially today, people are concerned with, okay. If I invest in this note today and I make, I'm expected to make this much yield on my money. Sure. Uh , inflation is, is going up up or it's perceived to be going up. I don't know if there's a measure. That's, that's been a metric that's been out there today to show exactly what, what the government is saying. It is right now, but we'll, we'll just, you know, we , we can round, round up numbers, round down numbers, all we want. Sure, sure. So when people ask me the question, like, what do you do about inflation? And I , and I say, you know, what is your concern with the inflation? Because the money that you, that you , um , put into this capital investment, what was the inflation rate then like that , that's what you can be concerned with, what you can in the future. You can't really predict what happens in the future. You can't really know what's gonna happen. So that's why I tell people like you have to focus on, when did you make the investment, cuz that what was the value of that dollar then versus what it is today? Cuz you're still making a really good return. It's just, you know, things change. So you brought up a great point about you have the opportunity still with a note, if you wanna exit outta that note, whether you wanna sell it to somebody or sell a partial. Sure . Like you mentioned hypothe modification, you can also borrow against it. Well, so you can hedge that and that risk and that. And if you feel like the inflation is too much for you right now, you're trying to make a different return or you need to recapitalize on your investment and go out and do something else you're able to do that. So notes are extremely flexible in any way, shape or format . A rental can be flexible as well. So I agree with what you're saying. It there's a lot more work involved and I've had pretty negative experiences with rentals. So I'm, I'm obviously not on the rental side for myself to make that part of my life because I'm not trying to build a rental business and I'm not trying to build , uh , se have several people working for me to run the rental business. I'd rather have a few people work for me to run a note business, which is , which is what we do right now. Yeah . By , by all means notes, businesses extremely more hands off , especially physically. Yep . Then it is having a rental business. Um, you brought great points about, you know, with a , with a rental business about every, I don't know Jay correct me if you disagree with me or change my mind if you disagree with me, but about every five years, if everything is working well in a rental, if you , if you flip it or prep it in a way that a tenant's gonna have a pretty solid home about every five years, you're, you're fixing something major, major, meaning like I would say roof or some pretty significant money to be put back in there. So all the, the profit margin that somebody measures on a rental, you know , they'd be like, oh yeah, I'm getting a 15 or 20% return. Yeah, that's great this year. But what about the years when you're gonna have a negative 40% return? And so the net overall that you make with that rental is pretty similar to note . And most cases that I have found out are notes are just a little bit more profitable and it's extremely less work for you to do so. Yeah . So that's kind of , that's kind of my, my take on it.

Jay Redding:

I, I would not I would not disagree with you. Yeah . I mean our experience to date so far with the note side has been , um, exceedingly easier, less hassle, more flexibility across the board. Um, our plan is as we build our note business to the point where it can replace some of our rental , um, uh , income, we plan to , to gradually scale back on the number of rentals yeah. Um, that we have , um, and , and continue to keep building out the no business is what we are , is our continued plan right now. Cause we have found it just so much, so much easier, less hassle , um, and uh, quality of life. Let's just put it that way. Quality of life.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. And ,

Jay Redding:

And , and I like the fact that I'm getting, you know, I'm a little older than you. Okay . Uh, I'm getting at a point where I want to be able to do this from anywhere in the world. And as long as I have a , a , a computer, an internet connection , uh , literally we can do notes from anywhere that we wanna be. So if we're on a trip, you know, to Tim buck two or wherever , um, I can , uh , I can check in on things. Um, Kyle's on board with that as well. Uh, he doesn't think he wants to continue to manage rentals for the rest of his life. I don't know why that would be the case.

Justin Bogard:

Right . Yeah .

Jay Redding:

And I'm with him . OK . I understand that. Um, but he would be okay . Managing a few, particularly our best ones that we have. Yeah . Um, and you can, you can manage 15, 20 yourself, pretty, pretty comfortably with a good team around you . So , so we'll see.

Justin Bogard:

Right . We'll see . So you did mention Kyle he's , he's your son-in-law and you kind of have this, this business set up to where you can pass on a legacy down to him and that is correct. And their generation as well. Um , I like that, I , I like that about you. I'm glad that you are setting a legacy business for, to pass on the next generation cuz uh , I'm a , I'm a trying to do that as well. Cause I think this is pretty neat. If you, you start something, you can just pass it down and pass it down. So the generational wealth now can be pretty substantial because things that you start today with the notes or what's this throwing the rental business as well, could possibly be tenfold, a profit for somebody down the line in , in the generation.

Jay Redding:

Oh, absolutely. Particularly if you're doing a sub notes in a self-directed I a , uh , you know, the impact, you know , if you stop and figure out the , the , the amount of money that you're gonna get over the, if , if a note goes to term okay. Over that, it it's huge. Okay . Um, you don't need very many of those to go that long to hit home runs to be quite honest. Yeah. And , and we both know that the vast majority will never go to full term, but still the average note , seven to 10 years , um, you've got great cash flow in a tax free environment, particularly if you're able to get into a , uh , Roth IRA. And I, I have been quite honestly been rolling money every year from my traditional over to my Roth to help accelerate that. Yeah. I'm taking the hit, but I'd rather take the hit on the seed money than on the , uh , on the exit

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. On the crop. Right?

Jay Redding:

Yeah , exactly. Yeah. So, so yeah, what that would was one of the purpose that was one of our missions when we started this is that we wanted something that we could pass on , um, to the next generation. And in my case I only have one child, so , uh, we know where it's going. So

Justin Bogard:

That's pretty , pretty easy. The path

Jay Redding:

That was pretty easy. Yes . Yeah .

Justin Bogard:

So Jay , you do some other things to help promote , uh , what you do and kind of educate and teach as , as well as I do too. And I believe you and Kyle have , uh, your own little, your little on time presence, whether it's on social media or you use YouTube and then you also have a group of people that follow you as well. So why don't you go ahead and plug , uh , what you guys do as far as sure . I think it's on social media where I see it. Uh , what you guys do monthly or weekly? I don't recall what , what it is .Yes, yes. Um , we have , um , we have a group , uh, we, we meet on the last Thursday of every month and , um, to be able to get signed up on that, you can go to our website at cassidyinvestments .com . Uh , and that is our training. It's basically, it's one, one , uh , uh , it's about an hour and a half that we make it open. We, we always bring a , a deal or two that we're working on , uh , at the particular time. Um , if someone has a deal that they're working on or if they just have general questions, it's a very open format. Um, we don't record it , uh , so it can stay very open and you can ask all kinds of questions that you , uh, might have about no investing or what we're doing. Um, we also have a , a book that we have put together. It's called ask Kyle and Jay , all right .

Jay Redding:

Be the bank , uh, and actually our , uh , real estate investor group named this. Okay. So I didn't mean to jump on your on years . Um , but it's called be the bank , an introduction to note investing. If you're brand new to notes and you really know nothing about it, it is something to be you . I would highly encourage you as a , to consider as an alternative type of investment. Maybe in your portfolio, we are giving a copy free copies of this away on the online version. All you have to do is go to Cassidyinvestments .com , sign up for our M our quarterly newsletter that we send out and you will get a downloaded digital copy of this at you can read directly online. It is simple reading. I'm not the fastest reader in the world. And I read it in 30 minutes. All right . When I , when I practiced it. So it's very simple, very easy, but it just gives you an overview of what no investing is about is about some of the basic strategies that's out there. And just so you have a general foundation, as far as what , no , no investing concerns. And then you can come on the call . I , uh , and learn a lot more than nuts and bolts of how we invest and what we do in that respect . So

Justin Bogard:

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah . Thank , thanks for sharing that. And thanks . Thanks for agreeing that to our audience here. So again, that's, cassidyinvestments.com, its C a S S I D Y

Jay Redding:

That's

Justin Bogard:

Correct. investments.com. Okay. Yes. Also, will put that in the show notes as well for you. So any other, any other , um, words of wisdom for owning a , a portfolio or any words of UN wisdom to say, like you don't wanna own rental portfolio? Like I know you've had good experiences because you explained the process and the procedure that you went through to do it, but if you had to do it all over again, are you still happy with the way that you went down your real estate path?

Jay Redding:

You know what I, I, I am for a couple reasons. Okay. And the reason, reason being is that I believe because of my experiences on the real estate side, particularly dealing with the non-performing notes, I have a much more, much better knowledge base in which to handle a property that may come back to us. Okay. We know all the stretches , we know all the, of the things that we can do with it. And , and quite honestly, though, in this market right now, we've not had one come back to us. So, I mean, they get sold at the Sheriff's sale. So , um, but I I'm very comfortable in that respect and our knowledge base and our experience base in that. Um, but what I would say is that if you are currently a real investor right now, you need to learn about notes. And the reason being is it gives you so many more exit strategies than what you're doing right now. Okay . Um, I could not have done some of the deals that we've done in the last year, had it not been for the fact that I learned about notes and how to capitalize on seller financing and doing it in a way so that it has value in the secondary market. And that's, that's the thing there , there's a lot of real estate investors that do seller financing and you and I have both seen these, right ? The, the , the notes that they create are very sub poor , uh , sub subpar. Yeah . Uh , and they just don't have value or there's even stuff in there that's just not legal. Okay . Um, so learn about notes. It gives you more flexibility. And it's gonna give you, it's gonna put more money in your pockets, the bottom line.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. I think it comes down to it's about reading the rules or understanding how to put of the game. Yes. Yes. So I I've learned that and anything I do in life. Yeah. I can read the rules and understand them, but how do you play the game? Or what strategies are involved in winning is what separates the people that, you know, know what they're doing and making money versus the people that struggle all the time. So , yeah . I , I agree. I , I see a lot of professional, real estate investors that aren't strong on the note side or the financial side of the business and they, and they make decisions based on what the culture has taught them, growing up in the business, not really understanding or getting, you know, some council or some advice from someone. Uh , that's a note professional that's been , that's been doing it day out and day out, day in and day out for a very long

Jay Redding:

Time. Right. Right. I mean , and an , an example that I have used on different occasions and just talking with people is just , um , we did a flip that got way outta hand, because the more, it was one of those that the more you dug into it, the worse it got. Yeah. Okay. That never happens on a flip. No, not , not at all. Right. Um , the bottom line was if we would've flipped that we would've made maybe, maybe made five grand . Okay. We did it with our , we ended up selling on our , on seller financing with a wrap mortgage in place and everything we made , we made 15,000 up for , and we made , uh , we're making 360 6 a month for the next 20 plus years. And then we make a thousand a month after that 20 year mark , if it goes to full term . Nice . That sure. Beats the 5,000.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. Yeah. There's ways to be very creative in this business when you get into a jam and having the note knowledge, if will , right . Helps you figure out ways to turn something bad into something great.

Jay Redding:

Really good. And , and I would not have had that knowledge, had it not been from my experience in , in learning, learning notes at that, that we would've only took the five grand and gone to another day. And I'm thinking, you know, that that was a slim margin, but that's, that's a great one. Cuz we got all of our money outta that deal right now and yeah. And it's, it's putting money in our pocket every month.

Justin Bogard:

Yeah. And it's a repeatable model

Jay Redding:

Too. Yep . It sure is.

Justin Bogard:

All right , Jay , so switching gears a little bit here. Sure . Besides be the bank podcast, what podcast are you listening to right now that helps you either in business or life that we could, that we can kind of talk about ?

Jay Redding:

You know what I , um , I , I do listen to Jamie Bateman and Chris, Chris 70 , uh , listen to that one. Okay. I do catch yours from time to time. The problem I have with yours is that the same night we have a mastermind that we run up here in Fort Wayne. It's the same night when you do yours. Uh , but I do catch a fair number of yours as well as far as , uh , on the replay. Okay. Um, I , I'm probably more of a reader of books than podcasts to be quite honestly. Yeah, that's fine. Um , I mean don't plug the book . Yeah. Many of the books out there, you know , uh , if you haven't read , uh , the rich dad, poor dad , you read that. That probably is what got me started in real estate. But the one that probably really got me was the cashflow quadrant. Cause that made it so clear. Is that okay ? I need to get into a different quadrant than where I'm at right now. And that changed the game for me. Totally, absolutely. Um, anything with Napoleon hill? Um, anything with , um , how to win friends, influence people? I mean, if you're not strong on people skills, that is a great book. Okay. Those are just a few that I can think just off the top of my head , uh, university of success. That's a great one as well. Yeah. Uh , there's a lot of different authors. That's that ? That's a thick book. So if you're, if you're a big reader, okay. You'll be okay with that. But if you're, if you struggle reading, you struggle reading this one. Don't try to that one. Cause I like interest .

Justin Bogard:

Give , gimme a what they call it a graphic. No , where they're just balloons above people's heads with, with the words written in that's that's the one I'm interested in, right? Yeah . With more , more visuals. All right . Jay , Jay , thank you so much for being our episode. Our podcast episode number six for the season, number four , um , you know , I'm Justin Bogard bright path notes. This episode is brought to you by bright path notes. And Jay , is there a contact way that people can contact you besides going to Cassidy investments .com and, and downloading or getting your , your

Jay Redding:

Signup ? Yeah, they can go , uh , there's a form on our website. Um, they can email us info, Cassidy investments.com, but there's also, if you have a note, if you're up in my area, up in Fort Wayne area , um , we have , um , you can submit a note directly online, some information, so you can do that. Or you can contact your office at 2, 6 0 4 4 0 7 4 4 3 . And ask for Kyle or me either one.

Justin Bogard:

So , all right . All right , Jay , again, thanks for being on the podcast today. My friend for episode number six and uh, for everyone listening, we'll see you next time. Don't forget to , to go to the bright path notes, YouTube channel to check out the video version of this podcast.

Jay Redding:

Thank you Justin .

Justin Bogard:

Hey , you're welcome my friend.

Jay Redding:

See you . All right , byebye.

Justin Bogard:

Thanks for listening to be the bank. We hope you learned something from today's show. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review it us . Plus check out our bright path notes channel on YouTube and follow us on Facebook and Twitter at be the bank and on Instagram at be the bank podcast. Be the bank is sponsored by bright path notes. Thanks again for listening.